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TVs as P3D monitors

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I asked in the hardware>monitor section but got zero replies.

 

A question about TVs as a P3D monitor.

 

I take it modern LED TVs have a "fast enough" response time for sim display?

 

I'm a retired guy so a $1500 TV is out of the question for gaming. But after saying that

I see some brand name 32" to 40" TVs at great sale prices. 

 

What specs on a TV am I looking for as a P3D monitor?  

 

Right now I am using a nVidia 680 but am looking at a 970.

 

Thanks

Ken

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I also use a 32" HDTV as a monitor.  Have had it for two years and it works fine with my EVGA GTX 650 Ti Boost 2gb card. I too am retired and budget was of concern.  Would look you check to get one with the highest resolution possible for the price.

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Hi Ken,

 

Do a search on "tv vs monitor for gaming" and draw your own conclusions.

 

Personally I use a TV on one of my computers (cuz it was free) but not for any kind of graphics, like FSX or P3D. Strictly web browsing and home accounting. And I still hang on to Rollercoaster Tycoon but that's 640x480.

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Omitting the latest super high resolution TVs...

 

I would say it depends on the TV and the type of aircraft you fly.  I recently tried a 32" 1080p LED HDTV while flying the Aerosoft Airbus A320, and at (I'm going to get the resolution a bit wrong, but you'll know what i mean) 1920x1080 I could not read the letters or numbers on the Nav or EFIS display. I changed the resolution to 1240x1024 and I was able to read the letters and numbers though they were still a little out of focus.

 

I spoke to someone who works in the field who explained to me that generally speaking TVs just don't have the pixels that a computer monitor has, thus they may work okay for graphics but for reading text they can't compare to a computer monitor.

 

Note please that my TV was 60Hz and the refresh rate was fine, so moving to a 120Hz or 240Hz would not have helped the alpha numeric resolution.

 

I run an NVIDIA 970, and presently use 3, 23 inch monitors.  Someday I hope to buy larger monitors.

 

 

Hope this helps!

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I would say it depends on the TV and the type of aircraft you fly. I recently tried a 32" 1080p LED HDTV while flying the Aerosoft Airbus A320, and at (I'm going to get the resolution a bit wrong, but you'll know what i mean) 1920x1080 I could not read the letters or numbers on the Nav or EFIS display. I changed the resolution to 1240x1024 and I was able to read the letters and numbers though they were still a little out of focus.

 

I spoke to someone who works in the field who explained to me that generally speaking TVs just don't have the pixels that a computer monitor has, thus they may work okay for graphics but for reading text they can't compare to a computer monitor.

 

Not sure what that means "don't have the pixels".  I have a 27" monitor (Dell) next to my 46" TV (Samsung) and I'll admit the monitor looks better, kind of...I think the TV shows all the flaws since it's so large but the size of things on the screen are more realistic.  They're both 1080p and I can read text on either equally. 

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Ok guys....thanks for the input....you've given me a lot of info to work with.

 

Another question....I keep reading about HDMI "lag" and to use the DVI Input if a TV has them.

 

Many of the TV manuals mention connecting a computer to your TV but those without DVI inputs say to use a DVI to HDMI cable.

Will that still cause a lag or is the lag a product of the computer output?? Not that many TVs with DVI inputs on the market.

 

Thanks again!

 

Ken

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I've hooked mine up with both straight HDMI and with a DVI to HDMI converter and noticed no difference at all.

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Tv doesn't have the resolution , or number of pixels that a computer monitor has . The larger the TV  screen size, the more apparent this is as the pixels are then spaced farther apart. You lose fine detail with the TV, that you would get with a monitor. 

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For my 75th I just bought a Polaroid 55" 4k @60Hz  TV from Fry's for $428.00.  It wasn't my 1st choice.  That was an LG 55" 4k @120Hz for around $700.00.  Anyway, it has 4 HDMI inputs and two of them are HDMI2, no dead pixels, no bright pixels, and it looks gorgeous in flight.  I can make the instrument panel almost full size and the scenery looks great.  My video card is an EVGA 980FTW.  The main drawback to any 4k monitor or TV is you have to stand up & get close you want to see your frame rate.  I love it!!!!


Hey Bobsk8,

 

I see that you are 10 days older than me.  Happy Birthday :Party: :Party:

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I use a LG 55" LED (in PC mode @60htz). I think the key is to stick with a 60htz (or lower) refresh rate, when I try to run in 120htz mode I get awful screen tearing.

Also run hdmi with no problems

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I use a 60" Samsung Plasma TV at 1080p 60hz with a DVI to HDMI cable. There is no lag and the image is excellent with P3D and gaming. Also the immersion, which is crucial, is superb as a result of the screen size. TV's are a much better buy than monitors in my opinion

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Used a 4k TV (LG 42 inch, also tried Samsung 4k 55 inch) for the past year.I sit about 18 inches from it. It works fine even at 30Hz. I don't think a 1080p has adequate resolution for VC's by comparison but others may have opinions.

 

The key factor for 4k is a decent graphics card, The 780ti worked okay but a 780ti made a big frame rate difference in P3D.

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23" monitor 1080x1920 pixels. Big TV at 1080x1920 same number of pixels, just larger pixels.Look at both from 6 inches away an note the pixel size. Now, the screen quality of the monitor should be better. Precisly sized and spaced pixels with proper brightness control and range of light as well as proper color rendition. The stuff you receive on your TV is quite bad compared to a graphic card's output. Compression keeps both quality and costs down. If you look an an old fashioned "over the air" picture directly from the local news studio, versus CNN or FOX the cruddy Network picture is noticeable.

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The resolution for a 32" monitor could be 2560 x 1440 for 2k  or 3840 X 2160 for a 4 k monitor.  The resolution of a 2K HDTV is 1920 x 1080.  There is no way that the TV is going to look as good as the monitor regarding the resolution alone.  

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Hey Ken. I had been flying with an LG 3D 49 (49 or 50GA6400) inch for a year before I did a little research and found out about the gaming mode that most TV's have now! 

 

One thing was I had to name the HDMI output to "PC" in order for the input lag to TV to be at it's very least!

 

Running a 970. Have a second 25 inch dedicated to Plan-G and a 19 inch for misc. Coming from a triple 25 inch surround set up I could never go back!

 

Add 2 x DSR...gorgeous with negligible lag! Picked up the TV at a local shop for under $500 as it was there last floor model!

 

The colors and clarity blow my Asus monitors away!!! 

 

There is a site that reviews most models and break down their specs including input lag for gaming!

Here is another...http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-test-results/input-lag

 

Greg 

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Any monitor or TV with the same resolution will have the same number of pixels. Pixel density on monitors (which are usually smaller than TVs) is higher hence the picture looks crisper. Monitors also handle colour, and multiple refresh rates better than most TVs.

 

Saying that, I use a 46 inch Samsung TV as my PC/flight sim display and I am more than happy with it, especially considering the price to size ratio when compared to fully fledged monitors.

 

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In theory, there's no reason why a 1920X1080 HDTV can't look almost as good as the equivalent PC monitor. (and with 4K Ultra... many are actaully designed to work PC monitors as well as TVs). That said, there are a couple of things to watch for: Input lag can be an issue with an HDTV due to extenisve video processing they perform. That can usually be bypassed using PC or Gaming modes typically available on some of the HDMI inputs. Read reviews on the particular TV you're considering to see if Lag has been tested. Another thing I've seen personally, is with both my Sony HDTVs, if i hook my PC (using an older GTX680 card) directly via HDMI, the TV appears to do significant DOWNSCALING of the image quality - I believe this is an anti-piracy measure, but I've never been able to find evidence of this on the web. I get around it by using a HDMI soundbar in between my PC and my Sony. Displays properly then and looks great! I also have a Panasonic 4K Ultra HD, and it woks perfectly (and beautifully) directly hooked up via HDMI in 1080p mode.

 

As you may have gathered, I'm in the 'bigger is better' camp and started with a 42" HDTV and have since moved to a 58" 4K TV.

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I have 3 32" lcd tv's. The resolution is 1920x1080 each. In NV Surround I use 5920x1080.

They are in use as my cockpit windows.

 

4K monitors are way too sharp for outside view use only.

In reality nothing is that sharp in the distance.

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If you want to make an easy comparison of the look of a 2k  HDTV versus a monitor, think of the old dot matrix printer as an analogy. The more dots per inch, the better the print you will get, with more details that you eye can resolve. A standard 2K TV has a relatively low dots per inch display usually  compared to a decent computer monitor of equal size screen. There is no way the lower dots per inch picture will look as clear as the higher one. Anything else is wishful thinking. That is why 4K is becoming the new design for modern TV's, but the down side of 4K is that unless you have a very big and expensive 4K TV, to see the difference between the 4K and 2K you have to sit really close to the 4K screen.   

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A standard 2K TV has a relatively low dots per inch display usually compared to a decent computer monitor of equal size screen.

 

Rubbish

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Lots of strange info in this thread ... a monitor or TV will have a 'native resolution' this is the "actual" number of pixels the monitor will have ... in my case that native resolution for my 4K Sony XBR850B 49" is 3840 x 2160.  You do NOT want to run your Monitor/TV on anything other than it's native resolution for optimal clarity. Native resolution will have a 1 to 1 pixel per resolution.  If you operate outside of a monitors "native resolution" this will interpolate the image and it will NEVER look as good as native resolution (it will seem either blurry for lower to over contrasted and unclear text for higher than native).  For example my Sony supports 4096 x 2160 but its not the native resolution and hence will not look as good at that resolution even thought it is a higher res than native 3840 x 2160.

 

Monitors/TVs will also have a pixel pitch ... this is the distance between the pixel (if you run native resolution this will be 1:1) ... the larger the screen size for the same given native resolution will mean a higher pixel pitch (wider space between pixels).  This is where your viewing distances to the TV/monitor comes into play ... if you are sitting about 3 feet away from your monitor and you have a 65" monitor running native 3840 x 2160 you might notice the space between the pixel, but if you were running at 40" monitor at native 3840 x 2160 at the same view distance of 3 feet you would most likely NOT see the gap between the pixels.

 

Then there is pixel response time (note this is NOT refresh rate) ... this is how long it takes a pixel to change it's color state and is measured in milliseconds (high  response times can cause motion blur) - LCD is typically longer response time (bad thing) than OLED but again will vary considerably per monitor brand/type.  However, most LCD's today don't have a response time issue unless they are very lower quality.

 

The down side to "Monitors" that are based on DVI only is that they ONLY support the RGB color space, a good high quality 4K TV will support both RGB and YCbCr444/422 so end user can select what they like.  Often a TV will provide many more "adjustments" to image quality when using YCbCr color space.

 

So to summarize, TV or Monitor doesn't really matter what you call it ... look at the specifications (those above) and see what it can or can't do and decide from there.  All monitors/TVs are NOT the same, so pick wisely.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT: For 4K TV's DVI is out (unless you go an exotic route of using two DVI ports and two DVI inputs - very rare) ... so for 4K it's DisplayPort 1.2 (60Hz) or HDMI 1.4 (30Hz) or 2.0 (60Hz).

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Rubbish

 

I spent my entire working career conducting classes on high end video displays for the military,broadcast industry, and movie industry. What are your qualifications, genius, since it is obvious to me that your understanding of display resolutions on a scale from 1-10 is probably about a minus 5.

Lots of strange info in this thread ... a monitor or TV will have a 'native resolution' this is the "actual" number of pixels the monitor will have ... in my case that native resolution for my 4K Sony XBR850B 49" is 3840 x 2160.  You do NOT want to run your Monitor/TV on anything other than it's native resolution for optimal clarity. Native resolution will have a 1 to 1 pixel per resolution.  If you operate outside of a monitors "native resolution" this will interpolate the image and it will NEVER look as good as native resolution (it will seem either blurry for lower to over contrasted and unclear text for higher than native).  For example my Sony supports 4096 x 2160 but its not the native resolution and hence will not look as good at that resolution even thought it is a higher res than native 3840 x 2160.

 

Monitors/TVs will also have a pixel pitch ... this is the distance between the pixel (if you run native resolution this will be 1:1) ... the larger the screen size for the same given native resolution will mean a higher pixel pitch (wider space between pixels).  This is where your viewing distances to the TV/monitor comes into play ... if you are sitting about 3 feet away from your monitor and you have a 65" monitor running native 3840 x 2160 you might notice the space between the pixel, but if you were running at 40" monitor at native 3840 x 2160 at the same view distance of 3 feet you would most likely NOT see the gap between the pixels.

 

Then there is pixel response time (note this is NOT refresh rate) ... this is how long it takes a pixel to change it's color state and is measured in milliseconds (high  response times can cause motion blur) - LCD is typically longer response time (bad thing) than OLED but again will vary considerably per monitor brand/type.  However, most LCD's today don't have a response time issue unless they are very lower quality.

 

The down side to "Monitors" that are based on DVI only is that they ONLY support the RGB color space, a good high quality 4K TV will support both RGB and YCbCr444/422 so end user can select what they like.  Often a TV will provide many more "adjustments" to image quality when using YCbCr color space.

 

So to summarize, TV or Monitor doesn't really matter what you call it ... look at the specifications (those above) and see what it can or can't do and decide from there.  All monitors/TVs are NOT the same, so pick wisely.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT: For 4K TV's DVI is out (unless you go an exotic route of using two DVI ports and two DVI inputs - very rare) ... so for 4K it's DisplayPort 1.2 (60Hz) or HDMI 1.4 (30Hz) or 2.0 (60Hz).

 

Nice to read a comment by someone that understands video instead of some of the misinformation  that I have read on this thread. 

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