This.   I don't like slamming any product from a small developer, but there is a degree of reasonable responsiveness which is expected of any vendor.   Pro ATC has a fairly significant bug which, when flying without co pilot assistance, can cause communications with Control to time out and be unusable for the remainder of the flight.   The developer's response to this was along the lines of, "To avoid this, always use the 'copilot tunes radios' and 'copilot acknowledges' settings.   This is something we didn't catch in testing because we all fly with copilot automation.  It will be fixed in o

 

The forum is not down, and this is one of the issues being worked on. 

I agree, leaving users for 9 month and longer with such an issue is just embarrassing.

Sometimes hard to find words for the attitude of some developers.

The forum is not down, and this is one of the issues being worked on. 

 

 

Not a huge deal.   I work in IT, it happens.   Just sayin...

 

 

The forum is not down, and this is one of the issues being worked on.

 

I have already waited nine months for a fix for this issue and now you say it may arrive in the fall ?

Honestly do you think this is good enough for an expensive product, why on earth can the Dev not release patches for significant issues such as this.

Is the code in such a mess that any fixes require extensive rewrites or does he just not really care about his customers.

I purchased mine prior to becoming a beta tester.

That seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Aren't products normally beta-tested before they're available for purchase? :blink:

I have already waited nine months for a fix for this issue and now you say it may arrive in the fall ?

Honestly do you think this is good enough for an expensive product, why on earth can the Dev not release patches for significant issues such as this.

Is the code in such a mess that any fixes require extensive rewrites or does he just not really care about his customers.

 

Why don't you send the developer an email and ask him personally? 

That seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Aren't products normally beta-tested before they're available for purchase? :blink:

 

 

I guess you are totally confused. I am a flight simmer and have been for a long long time. Over the years I have been on several beta teams, and almost all of them, I bought the product first and later volunteered to beta test newer or updated versions . This is what I did with Pro ATC. I have used every ATC program there is for FS and P3D, and after getting Pro ATC a year ago when I got back into flight simming, I found one ( Pro ATC ) that I really liked and was the closest thing to real life ATC, which I flew with for many  years.  I then found out that they were conducting beta testing on their next update version, and volunteered, and was accepted. They were apparently looking for someone with prior beta testing experience, real life ATC experience, flying in the IFR environment ( which I do on every flight to the tune of about 10 flights a week minimum)  So that is how I got this high paying  beta testing job , which will most likely enable me  to buy my own C-182 in a few months..  :wink:  In the mean time, I am seeing the product evolve. and getting better and better. 

 

 

Why don't you send the developer an email and ask him personally?

 

I reported the problem in his official support forum (that he rarely visits) It was acknowledged as a bug by one of his moderators and since then nothing has happened.

 

According to you, there is an update due later in the year but I have no idea if my issue will be fixed or not.

If this software ever gets fixed up it will be a very good ATC addon but I have had prior experience with Mourad Boutabba and his propensity for abandoning his ATC projects when the going gets tough, let's just say I am not holding my breath on this one.

Pro ATC has a fairly significant bug which, when flying without co pilot assistance, can cause communications with Control to time out and be unusable for the remainder of the flight.   The developer's response to this was along the lines of, "To avoid this, always use the 'copilot tunes radios' and 'copilot acknowledges' settings.

 

Actually the work around is much more straight-forward than that -- just use the "Say again" request, then acknowledge the repeat.

 

There's also an issue with tuning radios via external hardware not being picked up by the application in some cases which has hardly even been acknowledged.

 

Hmm. Never had that, and I've been using ProATC/X since I first heard about it.

 

until there is a better commitment to updates from the developer it's hardly more than expensive abandonware

 

There's a significant update every year. About twice as frequently as FSX before that was abandoned (till DoveTail and L-M came along). Radar Contact version 5 looked promising, but that was abandoned and left version 4 already abandoned.

 

I release about 20 updates of FSUIPC4 a year, which I don't mind, but that doesn't mean it's the right way of going about developments. For me I suspect it's mainly to do with getting very old and if I don't do things and write about them within days I would probably forget them. ;-)

That seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Aren't products normally beta-tested before they're available for purchase? :blink:

 

As you must well understand, the Beta testing he and I are involved in are for further developments, not the original product, which was evidently good enough way back then for us to think worth investing in. The fact that we are Beta testers now shows how much we are enthused about it and its future.

 

Pete

Why don't you send the developer an email and ask him personally? 

 

 

 

I guess you are totally confused. I am a flight simmer and have been for a long long time. Over the years I have been on several beta teams, and almost all of them, I bought the product first and later volunteered to beta test newer or updated versions . This is what I did with Pro ATC. I have used every ATC program there is for FS and P3D, and after getting Pro ATC a year ago when I got back into flight simming, I found one ( Pro ATC ) that I really liked and was the closest thing to real life ATC, which I flew with for many  years.  I then found out that they were conducting beta testing on their next update version, and volunteered, and was accepted. They were apparently looking for someone with prior beta testing experience, real life ATC experience, flying in the IFR environment ( which I do on every flight to the tune of about 10 flights a week minimum)  So that is how I got this high paying  beta testing job , which will most likely enable me  to buy my own C-182 in a few months..  :wink:  In the mean time, I am seeing the product evolve. and getting better and better.

 

I'm not confused in the slightest. I have also beta-tested several products but I never had to buy any of them. I was invited to join the relevant team. I also signed NDAs so couldn't discuss it as is being done here. You may be testing a product but I don't believe it can be called beta testing.

 

The definition of beta-testing is here. http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/beta-test.html

 

Note the significant part. before commercial quantity production

 

Any further testing after commercial release should perhaps be described as update or upgrade testing.

 

As you must well understand, the Beta testing he and I are involved in are for further developments, not the original product, which was evidently good enough way back then for us to think worth investing in. The fact that we are Beta testers now shows how much we are enthused about it and its future.

 

Pete

Hi Pete,

 

Yes, I know you are testing new releases but I still believe it's something different to beta-testing.

 

 

There's a significant update every year. About twice as frequently as FSX before that was abandoned (till DoveTail and L-M came along). Radar Contact version 5 looked promising, but that was abandoned and left version 4 already abandoned.

 

With due respect Pete, I don't think you should compare Microsoft's, DoveTail's or LM's update policy to that of a a single-developer company.

Large or larger companies need to be careful with updates, as all updates cost a lot of work for them - at or after the actual update - whereas a single developer (like yourself) can be much more flexible and actually quicker in development.

 

If your own FSUIPC had only annual updates, I guess very few people would continue using it, if at all. If you optimistically looked ahead of an annual update in the fall, FSUIPC would be hardly P3D v2 compatible and users would avoid it as much as they could.

 

I think the same stands for ProAtcX, it can go with its yearly updates and standing bugs, just as long as there's no serious competition.

Whereas people can wish for changes or fixes in your forum and their wishes are usually fulfilled in two days, the ProATCX author does even appear in his own forum anymore and leaves the "dirty work" of defending company policy to the beta testers, which is a simple and transparent question of mentality only...

 

Potroh

 

 

 

 

I'm not confused in the slightest. I have also beta-tested several products but I never had to buy any of them. I was invited to join the relevant team. I also signed NDAs so couldn't discuss it as is being done here. You may be testing a product but I don't believe it can be called beta testing.

 

The definition of beta-testing is here. http://www.businessd.../beta-test.html

 

Note the significant part. before commercial quantity production

 

Any further testing after commercial release should perhaps be described as update or upgrade testing.

 

Trust me, you are confused. So being that I am beta testing a product that has already been released, and testing  it's latest version before it is released , then I am not beta testing anymore. That's the most absurd thing I have heard today so far , and I just got up.    So I guess all the beta testers that LM has that are working on the latest P3D versions, should stop telling folks they are beta testers then, because according to you , they are not.  As far as the Commercial Quantity, which you quoted, that is when the product is finally finished in the beta stage, and is released as a finished product which will happen when the "beta testing" has been completed and there are no more problems that the beat team can uncover. This is a different approach than for instance, a software product like one of the new ATC programs I have observed, where it is released with all kinds of issues, and then the initial users have to act as the beta testers, reporting problems on a regular basis, with patches frequently issued to fix this and that. 

I have been "observing" this debate for a while now and the apparent lack of support by the developer of ProATC is of serious concern. How often a product is actually updated is not so important. but the clear involvement of the developer is. The developer of PF3 is very hands on and even though some suggestions may never be implemented they have been thoroughly discussed. Other anomalies are still bering raised from time to time by the beta team and are rapidly checked out. A fix is prepared for a future update or a reason given as to why it may be put on the back burner.

This is what I call "active support!" You get the same level of support for the free trial as well.

Bob,

 

I've said all I'm going to. And I don't like you using the fool icon. Once you resort to personal insults you won't get any more dialogue from me.

 

Enjoy testing a product you purchased when it should have been fully beta tested prior to it being released 2 years ago.

I have been "observing" this debate for a while now and the apparent lack of support by the developer of ProATC is of serious concern. How often a product is actually updated is not so important. but the clear involvement of the developer is. The developer of PF3 is very hands on and even though some suggestions may never be implemented they have been thoroughly discussed. Other anomalies are still bering raised from time to time by the beta team and are rapidly checked out. A fix is prepared for a future update or a reason given as to why it may be put on the back burner.

This is what I call "active support!" You get the same level of support for the free trial as well.

 

.....and I've downloaded the demo to give it a try.

Bob,

 

I've said all I'm going to. And I don't like you using the fool icon. Once you resort to personal insults you won't get any more dialogue from me.

 

Enjoy testing a product you purchased when it should have been fully beta tested prior to it being released 2 years ago.

 

And I don't appreciate you lecturing me ​about what a beta tester is. I have been testing software products since the 90's for two multinational companies I worked. for, and I think I am just as knowledgeable as you are if not more about the topic. We have an LM beta tester on this forum Rob Ainscough. who is also an admin, how come you have never pointed this out to him, that he is not really a beta tester?