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DTG Flight School and Simulator Announcement

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I'm surprised no one has asked yet, but now that we know DTG plans 2 new offerings, including what appears to be a 64bit FSX replacement. How do you guys at PMDG see this? While a 64bit flight sim is what we all been waiting for, I know this really complicates matters for the 3rd party developers like you guys. You already support 3 32bit platforms (FSX, FSX-SE and P3D) and starting to get into X-Plane. Now having another FSX based platform this one 64bit to deal with is going to complicate development and support. So assuming DTG doesn't throw up any insurmountable obstacles like MS did with Flight, are you planning on supporting this platform as well?

 

Tom Cain

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So assuming DTG doesn't throw up any insurmountable obstacles like MS did with Flight, are you planning on supporting this platform as well?

 

They literally announced this yesterday, and it was simply a "this is a vague idea of what the platform is for."

 

I think it would be prudent to give it some time and see what, exactly, they're doing, and perhaps get copies of the software down the road before making any decisions...no?

 

 

 

EDIT: On a personal level, I'm excited to see what they have in store for this new version.

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What are the implications of a 64-bit platform for developers like PMDG anyway? Does it mean better models or better graphics or more complicated systems or something else?

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I don't think so it presumably will just stop people from moaning about OOMs all the time. Kyle may well refute that though if I'm being overly flippant.

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What are the implications of a 64-bit platform for developers like PMDG anyway? Does it mean better models or better graphics or more complicated systems or something else?

 

More accessible memory is the main point a bit more performance in some places. Visually it does not change anything for that point it is the switch to DirectX 11 that makes some changes, but there it depends totally on what they will have done so impossible to say from the very few screenies. Somehow I feel it would have been better to wait a little and go with DirectX 12 which reduce significantly the CPU cost for doign graphics which could give good result on a sim like FS.

 

But before anything is possible developers like PMDG needs to see the software and what they can do with it. For example with there is the Simconnect interface which addon can use to do many things to get data from the sim and/or inject data to the sim. That is the key part that is needed by addon developers and so far DTG just announced they would release this Flight Sim and another one this year, but nothing on it being opend to third parties, which is a very important questions.

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Kyle may well refute that though if I'm being overly flippant.

 

On the right course with the note about less likelihood of OOMs. That doesn't mean, though that you won't overrun in other spots. I was testing XPL and ramped up all of the sliders with a bunch of add on scenery and so on, maxing out my RAM and making my newly built computer very, very angry. Oops. 

 

Aurelien covers the rest: potential for better performance, and methods to do things older versions wouldn't let us do, etc etc.

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I'm surprised no one has asked yet, but now that we know DTG plans 2 new offerings, including what appears to be a 64bit FSX replacement.

I hope they implement some real nice virtual reality features out of the box for all these VR goggles announced for this year, too.

(Actually I hoped this would have been a reality in 2013 with P3D and Oculus Rift already, but it still seems to be a DIYer's pathway.)

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Like anything else, it remains to be seen how this product is received and what add ons are made available.  As excited as I am, I don't know that I'll be using it much until products from the likes of PMDG are made ready.  When FSX came out I bought it but didn't do anything with it.  I already had a fully built up FS9 with plenty of add ons I loved.  I haven't used a default plane for much of anything since FS2002, my first sim.  The newer GA default planes in FSX, such as the Maule, Cessna, and others are worth loading occasionally, so I will do a short flight with them.  I do use a 3rd party GPS and Active Sky however, so I'm still not playing out of the box. 

 

Hopefully DTG will allow all 3rd party developers to continue to plug in without necessarily going through Steam if that developer doesn't want that.  I also do hope free ware is still available.  That is just as important to this community and many wonderful payware products start out free.

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No need to rush in. Wait 3-5 years and see in what direction it goes. There are so many things that make the immersion of a flight simulator, and addon-on developers must be in the boat. Just think of ASN/REX (weather), FTX Global (ground textures), highly detailed airports, photorealistic sceneries, Navaids, EZDok (shaking), and high-quality aircrafts. I doubt all this will be available in DTG's released sim at the level we have now for FSX/P3D. Development will take many years.

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I'm looking forward to it. I'm no PC buff but if 64 bit brings fluid smooth flight that would be a great starting point. One thing that really disappoints & probably won't be addressed is the speed at which clouds pass the aircraft in flight. Years ago there was a military sim which had the clouds blasting by like it does in a real aircraft, it was so much more dynamic, so much more fun.

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I'm looking forward to it. I'm no PC buff but if 64 bit brings fluid smooth flight that would be a great starting point. One thing that really disappoints & probably won't be addressed is the speed at which clouds pass the aircraft in flight. Years ago there was a military sim which had the clouds blasting by like it does in a real aircraft, it was so much more dynamic, so much more fun.

I've never given much thought about that, but now you mention it, it is a issue that needs addressing :)

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I'm looking forward to it. I'm no PC buff but if 64 bit brings fluid smooth flight that would be a great starting point. One thing that really disappoints & probably won't be addressed is the speed at which clouds pass the aircraft in flight. Years ago there was a military sim which had the clouds blasting by like it does in a real aircraft, it was so much more dynamic, so much more fun.

The only benefit 64bit gives you is you won't run out of memory anymore (OOM's) In fact performance may actually decrease, if developers think now they can make their addon even more detailed, to the point of taxing the CPU and or GPU.

 

Tom Cain

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Tom

 

That sounds very disappointing. I've never had oom but I understand that some folk do & that must be very annoying. So, 64 bit is a lot of hype then? I really thought it would make a huge difference.

Thanks for your input anyway.

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Hmmm

 

64 bit...64 bit... Its a common theme. The magical thing that will make my Subaru sprout wings and turn into a 737, it will solve global warming and bring world peace. Another new sim...not thrilled.

 

Yes, I am very cynical. I have been simming since 1983, since before alot of you have been born I am sure.  I have seen sims come and go. The Sublogic series, Sierra's Pro-Pilot, Flight Unlimited, Terminal Reality's FLY!, The birth and death of the MSFS series, X-plane, P3D and now DVG. 

 

Over the last 33 years there has been excitement and major disappointment (hence Microsoft Flight). So while I would like to be cautiously optimistic about a new Sim, I guess I just cant jump on board until its been proven and can show it will stand the test of time.

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Well, "jumping on board" before we even know what we are going to get would be a bit daft :smile:

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64 bit brings fluid smooth fligh

 

No, that will certainly not be the case. The sim will not gain any more fps, and it will not look any different than 32bit. Since release of P3D v3, also OOMs should be a matter of the past.

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No, that will certainly not be the case. The sim will not gain any more fps, and it will not look any different than 32bit. Since release of P3D v3, also OOMs should be a matter of the past.

I think you meant to quote Tui737 not me, as I agree with you.

 

Tom Cain

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Didn't RR state when P3D V3 was released that intelligent coding was far far more important than 64 bit? I am still in the sceptical camp with regards to this. I value the opinion of likes of PMDG and Peter Dowson when it comes to things like this, certainly more than I do of certain YouTube content creators who seem to be peddling this as it is going to be awesome, and all before any details have been released! Hmmmmm.

 

Anyway in the mean time I will continue to use P3D and XP10, and await the verdict from the quality 3rd party addon providers as to their opinion on DTG's new platform.

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64bit is only part of the answer, and it comes with a lot of caveats.

 

Directx12 is where you should be hyped, in my opinion. I dont know how close it is for p3d - but big FPS leaps possible and on the way - and all with the hardware you have right now - providing you're not running an old VIC20.

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providing you're not running an old VIC20.

 

Dang.

 

Agree, the scenery guy will figure out how to cram their GB of scenery into that additional space pretty quickly.  The simulator platform itself uses a modest amount of RAM compared to scenery, and RAM is not a limit to performance. Unloading work to the GPU which are usually better at this than CPUs and some using GDDR5 memory now... going to DX12 might be a big step.

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Yes I can see that pushing as much as possible to the GPU is what needs to happen mainly. Now for people who are far more clever than I am with regards to these things, is a 64bit simulator going to make any difference with regards to performance or is it simply a matter of creating a sim that doesn't suffer from OOM? See I have only ever had one OOM error which is why I'm not that obsessed with 64bit. If you have a sim that dumps the data it doesn't need any more from memory and you have addons efficiently coded then surely 64bit is just a nice to have? Good FPS, and high fidelity addons which look good are what we all want isn't it?

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No, that will certainly not be the case. The sim will not gain any more fps, and it will not look any different than 32bit. Since release of P3D v3, also OOMs should be a matter of the past.

Do you have access to, or inside knowledge of, these new sims to enable you to speak with such apparent authority or are you speculating?

 

Andy Lawton

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64bit is only part of the answer, and it comes with a lot of caveats.

 

Directx12 is where you should be hyped, in my opinion. I dont know how close it is for p3d - but big FPS leaps possible and on the way - and all with the hardware you have right now - providing you're not running an old VIC20.

Both 64bit and DX12 are important without each you cannot have a stable future platform. And asking everyone to now start buying addons all over again, will mean there must be enough positives to use it in the future. -David Lee

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Both 64bit and DX12 are important without each you cannot have a stable future platform. And asking everyone to now start buying addons all over again, will mean there must be enough positives to use it in the future. -David Lee

DFS, or DFSchool are not going to be DX12, they will be DX11 Apps.

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Its really sad they are going with DX11, and that's only because of the Windows 7 users. DX12 have a lot of new nice features, it can do things that is not possible with DX11.​

DX11=All about the single core. And what I mean with it is that core nr 1 on the processor is the only core that do the talking with the GPU.

DX12 can also do split frame rendering with multiple GPUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyy7Tk-GBs video from the AMD guys explaining ALOT what DX12 can really do.

This also mean with DX12 that those who love AMD builds finally could have a awesome flight sim experience. I'm sure many would love to build a sim with AMD's (cheap hardware). Only reason why NVidia today outperform AMD is because of driver optimizations when on DX11

So in the end it seems like doing DirectX11 and reaching out to the (lazy,stubborn) Windows 7 users is more important than going with new technology that can really take fully advantage of your hardware. And new hardware is coming soon. Next gen AMD and Nvidia. New gen CPU and GPUs might even require Windows 10 to fully utilize the new hardware.

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