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funkcanna

PF3 V ProATC X

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Hi all,

 

I've been researching ATC addons for a while now and have narrowed the choices down to PF3 or Pro ATC.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has any useful insight into which of these is best and why. I've read a few threads but most were over a year old and there's very little I could find on comparing these two specifically.

 

Any thoughts?

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Been using PROATC for a couple of years now and am generally very pleased with it.  It works good most of the time and with a threatened further update in the offing it will no doubt be even better.  Can't compare it to PF3 as I never used it but.  One things for sure it is much much better than the FSX default.

 

Bob Palmer

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I use PF3 with pleasure, voice controlling it via MCE (Multi Crew Experience). The developer is very responsive, in case of problems there are frequent updates.

 

Not so with PROATC/X, there is only one update a year. No intermediate hotfixes, nothing. So if you run into a problem, you might have to wait very long until it gets fixed. I can only use it in "copilot handles everything" mode due to a bug.

Very unpleasant experience so far.

 

Mike

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The latest version of Pro ATC should be out shortly, and many issues are fixed with this latest release. I have used voice activated programs both ATC and FS 2 Crew, and found that I quickly got tired of having to wear a headset, having the voice activation misunderstood what I said causing multiple repeats ( and I used to be a radio announcer, so it's not me). Flying in the real world ATC for several decades , Pro ATC is the closest thing that I have found to the real thing, without having to pay $20 a month for a pay ATC program. 

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ProATC is the only one I have tried, but it's really good. I recently had a quite complex approach and then a go around. ProATC handled it perfectly according to the approach plate. I was quite impressed.

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I don't have PF3 but I do have PFE which is the earler version of PF3 as well as PROATC/X. Out of the 2 I prefer PROATC/X because of the dynamic assignments of SID and STARS and the adherence to their constraints, where PFE and I believe the same with PF3 you set up transitions during preflight, and then once you fly past that point you are basically on your own until yo reach the Final Approach Fix (FAF) where you will be vectored then cleared for the approach. One pro for PFE/3 is you'll have a wider variation in voice packs, while PROATC/X does not have as many and can be inconsistent, especially call signs. Many of these voicepacks are created by users, and as such quality control suffered a little. Here is a sample of both

 

PROATC/X

 

 

PFE

 

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Having been trained as an air traffic controller I would say all the addons are not too good yet better than the default. They are more of a flight following and flight planning service

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I own ProATC/X but don't use it, since I'm extremely annoyed, that it doesn't use correct ATC callsigns... (SAS is called S.A.S and not Scandinavian for instance)... I know that this depends on the voice pack, but I haven't found any (yet) that matches this correctly - or is really good...

 

Do any of you (who use ProATC/X) have any suggestions of voice packs?

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Thank all for the responses so far. I mainly fly GA but often IFR and I think the p3d standard ATC is really bad. Has me changing altitudes at random times and not really vectoring correctly so looking to upgrade this. I like the fact SIDS STARS are included with pro ATC but aren't they also in pf3?

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Having been trained as an air traffic controller I would say all the addons are not too good yet better than the default. They are more of a flight following and flight planning service

 

^

This.

 

I have ProATC and I also tried the full-featured trial version of PF3. They both try hard to please, but all I can say is that for IFR flight, they are better than the default. Not a ringing endorsement.

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ProATC's  biggest downfall is the lack of pilot voices, about 4 or 5 as I recall. PF3 and PFE before it, has loads. Yes some are electronic but you learn to live with that or delete any annoying ones. Another annoying problem I had with ProATC was that it rejected about one in five of my FSC flightplans for reasons unknown. Latest AIRACS all round.

 

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ProATC's  biggest downfall is the lack of pilot voices, about 4 or 5 as I recall. PF3 and PFE before it, has loads. Yes some are electronic but you learn to live with that or delete any annoying ones. Another annoying problem I had with ProATC was that it rejected about one in five of my FSC flightplans for reasons unknown. Latest AIRACS all round.

 

Most of  these issues are fixed in the upcoming update. 

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Most of  these issues are fixed in the upcoming update. 

'Most' of these issues Bob?  I am hoping that that is not a definitive statement from a Beta Tester as to the state of the impending update?  If it is - then how would you define 'most'?  Many ProATCX customers on these fora, myself included, have waited (patiently and silently), for a whole year, assuming that 'all' of the issues within the program would have been resolved by now. Is that not the case?

 

A little bit of clarification would be appreciated Bob?

 

Regards,

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'Most' of these issues Bob?  I am hoping that that is not a definitive statement from a Beta Tester as to the state of the impending update?  If it is - then how would you define 'most'?  Many ProATCX customers on these fora, myself included, have waited (patiently and silently), for a whole year, assuming that 'all' of the issues within the program would have been resolved by now. Is that not the case?

 

A little bit of clarification would be appreciated Bob?

 

Regards,

 

You will see when the update comes out. 

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Do those programs also support existing flightplans which can be loaded...

I use Prosim cockpit suite and it has it's own flight planner.

 

Or PFPX flight plans that can be loaded right away?

 

Thanks

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Do those programs also support existing flightplans which can be loaded...

I use Prosim cockpit suite and it has it's own flight planner.

Or PFPX flight plans that can be loaded right away?

Thanks

Both of them support PFPX. In case of proatcx, you need to copy the flight plan text and paste it in its planner.

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Both of them support PFPX. In case of proatcx, you need to copy the flight plan text and paste it in its planner.

I can load a PFPX generated .pln plan file into Pro-ATC. Works very nicely.

 

Peter

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I can load a PFPX generated .pln plan file into Pro-ATC. Works very nicely.

 

Peter

Great, it is just that I have not tried in a while. They must have fixed it in an update without me knowing.

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Using PFPX I can make a flightplan which can be loaded by PF3 .

PF3 will be voice controlled.

Prosim Utils can be used to load the PFPX flightplan into the Prosim CDU .

 

This should make it all work..

 

Suggestions are welcome.

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Aside from a few demos ProATC is the only one I've used. For the most part it works well, but as already mentioned it doesn't come without it's flaws.

 

I'll try and sum up my experience with as few words as possible.

 

PATC procedures are about as real as you can get in a sim environment (other than live ATC such as VATSIM obviously). We are going to have to accept that automated ATC will always have it's limitations that take the "realness" experience away, but like I said, the procedures themselves are pretty realistic. While it does have some bugs, with a bit of careful planning beforehand a lot of them can be eliminated. I use PFPX to create flightplans. I export from PFPX as a PLN file and this can be imported into PATC. However I noticed the PATC seems to add extra waypoints so before flying I generally have to make sure everything matches so the flightplan I enter in the FMC is an exact match for PATC. Another bug is late instructions, like being cleared to a waypoint I've already been to. This is a rarity though. There has also been occasions where clearance delivery wont grant me initial clearance, but a quick restart will solve this. Callsigns are another big problem (for example Aer Lingus isn't being referred to as "Shamrock" etc but you can download voice packs that fix this. While we're talking about voices, the default background chatter is terrible. Flying in Australia you will hear chatter from British airspace. Again, there are background chatter files which can be downloaded and saved in a certain folder structure that will fix this. There is also no voice activation built in. Key commands only (at least for now). It's also expensive at 50 quid. And it only gets updated once a year, and while it's a BIG update, if there's any minor bugs, you just know you're going to have to wait another year. Also it's IFR only, with no plans for VFR to be implented 

 

That's the "bad" stuff out of the way. Like I said, in terms of realism its very realistic. It recognises SIDS and STARS. It has a co-pilot function and check lists which can be customised. It has a zoomable moving map. All airports and runways have a lot of information (elevations, transition levels etc)and can be customised if you find any discrepancies. It's very VERY easy to use. There is a new update currently out which is being tested by a BETA team, so now is actually probably a good time to be buying it.

 

All in all, while it has a lot of problems it works well most of the time for me. Slowly but surely it is getting to where it should be. Because of the way it's set up, it has the potential to be the best ATC addon out there.

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Thank all for the responses so far. I mainly fly GA but often IFR

 

Pro-ATC/X is focused largely on tubeliner flying...for example, callsigns for many common non-airline aircraft aren't there.  I have most of the ATC add-ons and each has significant strengths and weaknesses compared to the others.  I change up which one I use just to keep things from being too canned (I am a long-time Radar Contact user...it's still my favorite, but it's good to not always do things the same way.)

 

Regards

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This is the start of a flight from Sanya to Kai Tak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crpKtgPIptQ

 

Since this video in one of the many updates the ICAO runway designition was updated so that all runways less than 10 are not desgnated as "Runway 8" but as "Runway 08" for example.

 

 

And this is the end of the flight. This also includes entry into a published hold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3flqD_Ne6g

 

This is a very short IFR flight showing some essential elements of PF3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7K102jts0s

 

In addition a lot of PF3ers use it for VMC flying and IFR vectoring where it is used. I would say it is the most FAA and ICAO compliant of all the ATC programmes. As well as mentioned above supporting voice recognition.

And unlike ProAtc it does not use alpha character definitions for aircraft registrations or waypoints etc.

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This is the start of a flight from Sanya to Kai Tak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crpKtgPIptQ

 

Since this video in one of the many updates the ICAO runway designition was updated so that all runways less than 10 are not desgnated as "Runway 8" but as "Runway 08" for example.

 

 

And this is the end of the flight. This also includes entry into a published hold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3flqD_Ne6g

 

This is a very short IFR flight showing some essential elements of PF3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7K102jts0s

 

In addition a lot of PF3ers use it for VMC flying and IFR vectoring where it is used. I would say it is the most FAA and ICAO compliant of all the ATC programmes. As well as mentioned above supporting voice recognition.

And unlike ProAtc it does not use alpha character definitions for aircraft registrations or waypoints etc.

 

 

 looked at the manual for this program and can't find anything about updating Airac. Are you forced to use an outdated version?  

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 looked at the manual for this program and can't find anything about updating Airac. Are you forced to use an outdated version?  

PFE/3 does not use Airac data. You include the SID/STAR in your flightplan at preflight, tell it transition points. ATC will not complain about being off course passed that point, allowing you to fly your approach. From that point you can fly 360's and ATC won't care. When you reach a predetermined  distance from the airport (FAF), PFE/3 will vector you for final. This is basically the same way RC4 approached this. PATC on the other hand do use data updated through Navigraph and assigns approaches dynamically and expects you to fly them as defined, including altitude constraints which it honors, or it will vector you back on course if you stray away from it.

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