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dmarques69

P3D - Flyinside and motion sickness

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So i lost my mind and purchased the Vive 2 weeks ago, from the beginning i was crushed about the awesome experience that VR give's you, forget all the "immersion" that you fell playing in a monitor, it's not even comparable, the feeling of being there really exists.

Of course one of the main reasons that bought me to buy the Vive where the simulators which i love, but unfortunately soon i notice that im very sensitive to motion sickness, nothing new to me, since i always was a guy that get car sickness easily...Anything that as movement on VR and im not moving gives me dizziness... and in a few minutes a feeling of being drunk and ready to throw up my guts.

First time i fired up P3D in VR and saw me inside the cockpit the reaction was woooooooooo what a huge feeling, now you can really feel the size of things, the size of your airplane, the notion of altitude and the height of your plane to the ground... its really a great feeling.

The problem starts when i got my wheels from te ground, the climbs, the descents and specially the banks give me those dizziness that drives me to motion sickness :( this of course is really disappointing for me, i'm felling like a child that as new toy but can't play.

The point of my thread is to ear other simmers that already tried flightsim in VR and what where there feelings regarding motion sickness.

Thank you

 

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Hmm. this is a very relative subject, and not really sure what you want to hear...

 

I assume there will basically be 2 groupss of people, thos that ge tmotion sickness like you which may like it but have this problem, and others that don't wnd will ove it without the problem... so not really sure what we can say to help?

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Okay,

 

By the way before reading further you need to make sure your Flyinside is producing Async FPS at 90fps if not - it is instant trip to motion sickness/naseua land.  Your Flyinside setting resolution is too high - reduce it or lock in game FPS to 30 or something else - just not unlimited.  For some planes Unlimited works great for me and some planes I have to reduce the  fps to 30 in game to get high Async FPS.

 

Now other stuff below

 

This is something VR industry as a whole needs to do is have people get their eyes checked out by a doctor first.  All sorts of things will happen in VR if eyesight is not corrected.  I can say this b/c I am married to an eye doc; some of my friends had motion sickness and it was 100% due to bad eyesight.  They said their eyes were fine till they got it checked out (and got corrected vision) - and after that they could enjoy VR really well.  There really isn't simulation height sickness for Flightsim b/c it doesn't look 100% real and I have VR-SLI which is amazing cutting edge tech.

 

I am sure height sickness and other things like vertigo will happen when the resolution of the VR headsets get to 4K or iphone like Retina display (where you can't see the tiny pixels), plus over 90fps of graphics pushed into each eye - yes then Vertigo effects could really bring out some craziness to the user.

 

For example the effects of Oculus Building Demo - that really has some amazing graphics, and that really can show vertigo for some users with current tech hardware.

 

I can't give eye check up advice as I am not a doctor, but go visit one and see on what they have to say (there really is no harm)

 

The VR headsets have PD settings (Pupillary Distance; oculus has manual PD lens button), wrong PD setting for your eyes can potentially cause motion sickness and other issues. 

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I dont get motion sickness as I fly big planes like the PMDG 737. If I fly an aerobatic or military aircraft I get some motion sickness but no more that I would get in real life. What skywolf said is right , you need high frame rate so get the most powerfull computer you can buy. 

 

If you just got your vibe just two weeks ago, give it time. You well get used to it. Just start with small sessions.

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The sickness gets better-take a break if it gets bad. Don't fly the f22 in acrobatic fashion.

You'd get sick in REAL life if you did that!

My VR sickness was mainly using Vorpx for games like bioshock and GTA5 which I don't do anymore.

Does your system give good framerates?

Jay

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I can say this b/c I am married to an eye doc; some of my friends had motion sickness and it was 100% due to bad eyesight. They said their eyes were fine till they got it checked out (and got corrected vision) - and after that they could enjoy VR really well. There really isn't simulation height sickness for Flightsim b/c it doesn't look 100% real and I have VR-SLI which is amazing cutting edge tech.

 

Skywolf thank you very much for your post, as you can imagine as i notice i had this problem i researched a lot on this matter, but you added new info that makes sense to me. I wear reading glasses for the computer and also for the Vive, and i have the same lenses for 4 years now, i think i need new ones since my vision is not that clear anymore, i have an eye doc appointment tomorrow and im going to talk about this problem also. As for my IPD, i made the measurement in a specialist so that is correct i think, although i dont fell any difference if i change the distance in the Vive.

 

Cheers

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Second Skywolf that it is important not to use unlimited frame rate because in VR when we bank the aircraft, we need the terrain to move at a constant rate. With unlimited, the terrain will pan fast or slow depending on GPU load - bad idea if you are concerned about nausea.

 

Second Skywolf that 90fps lock is really important.

 

There is also a possibility that the nausea is not due to eyesight, but inner ear and brain.

 

Brain/inner ear cannot be corrected with eyesight but could be corrected by slowly adapting over a very long time to VR.

 

Get into Avatar mode and practice walking without getting sick before moving onto the actual aircraft.

 

I think possible predictors for sickness in VR is whether:

you get motion sickness in real world,

whether you have short sighted-ness

and/or whether you have astigmatism.

 

For example I have farsightedness but none of the other predictors and can spend more than 2 hours in VR without glasses and without motion sickness.

 

of course another big factor on motion sickness in VR is whether you are tired, dehydrated or haven't eaten properly.

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Nausea occurs when the visual information from the eyes to the brain does not match the sensorial information from the inner ears related to motion. If one is susceptible to nausea in the real world he is likely to feel nausea with VR for the same reasons.

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Here are a few ideas to try in addition to the ones above:

 

Some say having a fan pointed at you helps with motion sickness when using VR.

 

Ginger candy, ginger ale, or ginger tea can help quite a bit for people who get nauseous.

 

The good news however is that you can acclimatize yourself to it by taking things slowly, and stepping away when you feel the onset of symptoms. The key is to spot them early, and don't try to overcome them. Just walk away, and take a break for a while.

 

Wear motion sickness bands, sea-band when playing VR

 

Better to be hungry than full.

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Thank you guys, i already read a lot about VR motion sickness and all the info matches what you are telling me, im trying to go slowly, eating properly, using ginger(it helps i can confirm that), and play short periods in games that are prone to MS.

 

I was expecting to read other experiences of MS from other simmers, but im seeing that im the only one here :)

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Thank you guys, i already read a lot about VR motion sickness and all the info matches what you are telling me, im trying to go slowly, eating properly, using ginger(it helps i can confirm that), and play short periods in games that are prone to MS.

 

I was expecting to read other experiences of MS from other simmers, but im seeing that im the only one here :)

This is indeed a very interesting thread you initiated and you certainly are not alone to fear motion sickness using VR if you are prone to it otherwise ! One has to add the people who don't see stereoscopically very well or not at all and thus unable to reconstruct a single.image out of two.  VR looks wonderful but I am afraid it won't be for everybody, not for me... 

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Yeah - this is like endorsements for eye doctors lol!

 

Good thread anyway - maybe I'll get it someday

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http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1602460

 

Here's a link to an interesting solution for those of us who wear glasses.

 

I also seem to recall that you should only be wearing a prescription that corrects for distance and nothing else when using Oculus Rift because of the way the optics are setup. I'm still researching this to make sure because I wear progressive lens.

 

I will be jumping into VR next month and am trying to get everything prepared before I do so and the glasses issue is a big concern for me.

 

Joe

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These are my thoughts on VR and motion sickness. I have an Oculus Rift CV1, P3D ver 3.4 with Orbx scenery and Rob Young's Realair Lancair legacy 2. In all the time that I have used flight simulation, this is the closest that I have gotten to the real world experience of flying. I fly GA for real and the problem with VR is that I don't get the real motion cues and I do miss them. In the same way that as a student pilot, I suffered initially with motion sickness, I grew out of it and in 25 years+ of real flying I have never ever been ill when I have been in control( probably just as well!). With VR, you need to give yourself time to get used to the environment and if you feel nauseous, stop and do something else for a while or even until the next day. When you eventually feel well again, that is not to say that you won't ever feel ill in VR but the period of exposure should be longer. Eventually I expect VR to feel quite natural to me but it will take time but it is worth it, as the experience is incredible.

I any of you are attending the flight sim show at RAF Cosford, UK on th Saturday 8th of October, I will have my OC there on the RC Simulations stand.

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Another important factor for motion sickness is stuttering in the sim.

 

Two issues, the goggle frame rate and the sim frame rate.

 

Lets say the googles are locked at 90fps because you have an SLI rig or a high end graphics card.....

 

....great but....

 

the sim *needs* to run smoothly as well especially when loading scenery in otherwise motion sickness will follow.

 

The sim frame rate is not really the issue....

 

rather it is the delivery of consistent non-stuttering frames.

 

I don't get motion sickness in VR but for an experiment, I down clocked my CPU from 4.5 to 3.5 and went for a fly.

 

The sim went well but occasionally would stutter.

 

The pause of 1/2 a second or so really knocks upsets the brain when it is expecting smoothness like it gets in reality.

 

If it is only one or two pauses it might be ok for some.......

 

but if the sim is randomly pausing even with a 90fps lock on the googles, motion sickness would probably follow for most.

 

The good news is that since VR is a HUGE game changer for flight simulation (including these first gen goggles when set up properly),

 

the simulation and scenery developers are going to have to be forced to comply with best practices in the design of super smooth simulators

 

because if not, they will be affecting peoples health in VR.

 

Gone will be the days when developers could get away with heavy eye candy to boost sales

 

and then lie to customers that the simulator will run smoothly.

 

In VR simulation smoothness is now a public health issue.

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My question is with these headsets. How big the resolution of the flight instruments. Will I be able to fly an ILS approach with them by reference to instruments only?

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My question is with these headsets. How big the resolution of the flight instruments. Will I be able to fly an ILS approach with them by reference to instruments only?

The gauges are not cristal clear you need some effort and in some cases some interpretation to read them.

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I really don't have too much trouble reading the instruments but they could be better. They don't compare with their appearance on a monitor. If you are looking at a gps or glass cockpit display it is also difficult to read small numbers or text. The quality also varies between different aircraft as well. With an analogue instrument display as with the Lancair, I have no issues and can always lean towards the panel for better clarity. Even with these drawbacks, the experience of flying under instrument conditions is still far and away more realistic in VR than not.

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Yesterday i played for some minutes one game that gives me light motion sickness (Onward a FPS), and i think my brain/eyes are starting to adapt, first time i play this one i was feeling dizziness almost in every movement, even being lighter than the one i feel in simulators like P3D, it was a constant feeling, yesterday i only felt in some movements, which is nice, i think im on the right track.

As for the guys that have doubts regarding if they are going to have MS with VR... i was almost certain that i was prone to motion sickness in VR, im those kind of persons that can't read a SMS in a moving car without being queasy... but im so glad that i bought the VIVE, forget the things you read, the videos on youtube, you have to try for yourself to feel the amazing experience that VR gives you...even for persons that don't like gaming, they are going to love, my wife for example is always asking me when can she play again, which is a pain lol, i have to give her at least 30 minutes every day to play with the VIVE... we can talk about the resolution, yes its not the best, not comparable to what you see in a monitor, but forget that, the level of immersion makes you forget that almost instantly.

Im going to be very sad if i can't pass this motion sickness thing completely to enjoy P3D for example, but even so, if you ask me if im going to regret for the 900€ that i spent, i would say NOT AT ALL. Stop reading, just buy it :)

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