france89, on 25 Oct 2016 - 4:14 PM, said:

And maybe they never will, and yet there are plenty of things in which they are clearly superior to the competition

Yes and that has always been the point. XP exceeds expectation at some (appealing) things. But is is not a complete sim platform that caters for the broader group. It may be with the coming of XP11, but it has always been 'niche' - which is what some people like(d) about it.

 

The very environment with which you interact - a very real environment - weather and seasons. Explain that one still not having been addressed properly

 

Edit: Having said all of that, I'll be in line for XP11 for sure.

Hi there,

 

64bit or 32bit, sloped RWYS or not and god knows what kind of eyecandy features a game or sim has to offer. I think in P3D lies the future in FSimming. LM did and still do a real good job since they introduce P3D v2.x to push the sim further and further ahead. Yes i do have OOMs but only if i push the system to its max. IMHO a 64bit sim platform will go down to its knees like a 32bit app and so will be a point at which the system go down on its knees, simply that the user pushes it. 

 

Since i entere the world of pc gaming and simming in the early 90´s there were always limitations to the hardware or the operating system. Lets see for ex Quake I back in the mid 90´s. There was no system that could handle the game as it was way to advanced for the hardware/OS at that time. The user had to turn off almost everything to get some usable frame rates. With the introduction of the 3DFX´s voodoo GPU card it became somewhat playable. 

 

With every new game technology the hardware was behind. Nowadays the gap between hard- and software became smaller as the game/sim engines became more optimized and effecient. P3D is one of those engines that er able to use most resources of nowadays hardware. So does DCS and so on.

 

But in the end the user is/will be the bottleneck of the system as he pushes it to its max.

The vast majority of flight sim users will continue to use either 32 bit FSX or 32 bit P3d for the foreseeable future. The real intrigue will involve what sim will  dominate the remainder of the market. DTG has done a masterful marketing job trying to forestall it's two main competitors, XPlane and Aerofly 2 from gaining any kind of substantial foothold. First, DTG bought the rights to sell FSX via Steam and often sold it at a price that was almost equivalent to giving it away. That approach probably kept more than a few people from switching from boxed FSX to XP10. Then, just to show that they weren't kidding about issuing an ESP-based 64 bit simulator, DTG released Flight School. IMO, Flight School is just a marketing piece/stalking horse for the upcoming DTG Flight Simulator. But it probably caused a few more people to pause and reflect about future purchases.

 

Now LR has announced a new and improved XP11 in an attempt to beat DTG to the market with its upcoming 64 bit offering. Personally, I think LR has made a slight blunder in not having an attractive upgrade path from the DVD version of XP10 to the downloadable XP11, but it's obviously a money thing with LR. I can tell you that it is making me think twice about upgrading. LR better be careful that it doesn't end up like Samsung, who rushed their flagship phone, the Note 7 to market (to scoop Apple's release of the iPhone 7+) without fully testing it. Or it could end up like Google Pixel, which was also marketed as "an iPhone killer", but has turned out to be just another pretty good smartphone with a high price tag.

 

And then there's the coy Lockheed Martin and they never divulge what upgrades to P3d are going to look like beforehand. At some point though, it will become evident that LM is not going to convert P3d to 64 bit. With the DTG Flight Simulator, Aerofly 2 and XP11 all out there, there may not be any reason for LM to upgrade P3d to 64 bit. Or LM could release the 64 bit P3d V4 tomorrow. As others have said, it's the nature of a big corporation to keep product advances under wraps.

 

Competition in a small market like flight simming is beneficial to the customer, but it can be deadly to the companies if their platform  is a flop.

Do you live in a bubble? XP is already 64bit and I would never trade it in simply because P3D moves to 64bit. And I am sure most other XP users feel the same!

Only the time will answer your question. :wink: XP is very nice and I use. X-Plane 11 is coming with nice features and I am eager to see how it will works.

It's time to leave an old address limitation in the past.

I am really thinking about this. When XP 11 release, I will test to see how its will works. :smile:

The vast majority of flight sim users will continue to use either 32 bit FSX or 32 bit P3d for the foreseeable future. The real intrigue will involve what sim will  dominate the remainder of the market. DTG has done a masterful marketing job trying to forestall it's two main competitors, XPlane and Aerofly 2 from gaining any kind of substantial foothold. First, DTG bought the rights to sell FSX via Steam and often sold it at a price that was almost equivalent to giving it away. That approach probably kept more than a few people from switching from boxed FSX to XP10. Then, just to show that they weren't kidding about issuing an ESP-based 64 bit simulator, DTG released Flight School. IMO, Flight School is just a marketing piece/stalking horse for the upcoming DTG Flight Simulator. But it probably caused a few more people to pause and reflect about future purchases.

....

 

Well said Jay.

 

Besides all that, it is also a thing about add ons and compatibilities which have to be considered either on the dev side as well as on the user´s side. A lot of us may have spend almost 2000ish USD into payware add ons. The majority of add ons -i guess- wouldnt be compatible with 64bit. Devs would need lots of time for converting their add ons to 64bit. If LM would throw P3D64 out tomorrow it would take a year or two to lift add ons like PMDG, ORBX etc to 64bit. On the other hand it might be time to start all over and leave the old stuff behind.

If that is true, how come they have such a small market share? 

 

XP doesn't need you money Bod, so don't worry and stick with what you like.

XP doesn't need you money Bod, so don't worry and stick with what you like.

 

Typical rude response that is often seen on XP forums.   :wink:

Typical rude response that is often seen on XP forums.   :wink:

 

Rude?? really?? I didn't know you were that sensitive Bob. My apologies  :wink:

 

 IMHO a 64bit sim platform will go down to its knees like a 32bit app and so will be a point at which the system go down on its knees, simply that the user pushes it. 

 

 

I'd like you to explain to me how anyone can reach the 16 Exabyte it takes to make a 64bit system overflow.

If that is true, how come they have such a small market share? 

 

 

This is one of the most ignorant "questions" I have ever seen. Take your argument by popularity elsewhere please.

I'd like you to explain to me how anyone can reach the 16 Exabyte it takes to make a 64bit system overflow.

You are right You most probably wont face an OOM. But one question, is it possible to achieve a frame rate of at least 30FPS in all possible scenarios with all settings set to ultra high(weather, gfx, AA, AI traffic, terrain, high scenery lod high system depth aircraft etc) in a 64bit sim? I would no. I mean yes you can crank up everything but the sim would be a slide show. Now where is the bottleneck?

 

Current PC system limitations are CPU @4.5-5GHz 128GB RAM 4-12 GB VRAM GFX @ high GPU clock rates + limited SLI/Crossfire support (no tripple or quad SLI support) So in the end the user himself must decide how to use these system limitations to get a proper sim experience. He defines the bottleneck...

I'd like you to explain to me how anyone can reach the 16 Exabyte it takes to make a 64bit system overflow.

 

Most 64-bit processors can access only 48 bits worth of physical memory. I used to say the same thing about 4GB, by the way.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

You are right You most probably wont face an OOM. But one question, is it possible to achieve a frame rate of at least 30FPS in all possible scenarios with all settings set to ultra high(weather, gfx, AA, AI traffic, terrain, high scenery lod high system depth aircraft etc) in a 64bit sim? I would no. I mean yes you can crank up everything but the sim would be a slide show. Now where is the bottleneck?

 

And the same users will then complain in the forums that they suffer stutters.

And the same users will then complain in the forums that they suffer stutters.

Exactly Not 64bit is the solution. The solution is the user.

As far as I see it : a 64 bit P3D needs a new and modern engine to start with icw DX12 ( less work for the cpu / more work for the gpu ).

If it is like the current 32 bit version and is "only" 64 bit than OOMs might be gone ( for the minority that are sufferig from it ) but the framerate/smoothness issues will appear again...