wcschulz3

Anyone Use, Have Thoughts on Icarus KSAN?

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Hi,

I love flying in and out of KSAN, and am pretty happy with one of the payware versions (Mister X?, not sure) for X-Plane.

I also like some of the payware airports--and would like to know if anyone has tried Icarus' new KSAN via X-Aviation?

Is the upgrade worth $20US?

Thanks

Bill

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Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Don't own it but the Icarus KSAN was a collaboration with latinvfr.

 

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59 minutes ago, wcschulz3 said:

Hi,

I love flying in and out of KSAN, and am pretty happy with one of the payware versions (Mister X?, not sure) for X-Plane.

I also like some of the payware airports--and would like to know if anyone has tried Icarus' new KSAN via X-Aviation?

Is the upgrade worth $20US?

Thanks

Bill

MisterX6 does not have a payware airport, though it does look and act like payware.  He actually has an update to it and it is a bit better than the original.

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/24953-ksan-san-diego-international/

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On 3/16/2017 at 10:10 PM, Jimm said:

MisterX6 does not have a payware airport, though it does look and act like payware.  He actually has an update to it and it is a bit better than the original.

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/24953-ksan-san-diego-international/

Without doubt MisterX6's airport looks very good, as freeware. But since you constantly doubt about the quality, here is comparison shot:

Y6a9iCw.png

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It looks great. I've purchased your Manchester and Mykonos sceneries and have been very happy with those purchases. I would also love to support LatinVFR's foray into X-Plane. Will the scenery be available through other retailers soon, such as Aerosoft/Simmarket/X-Plane.org store? 

p.s. what you guys are doing with the Avanti is looking really, really good.

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5 hours ago, finkelstein said:

It looks great. I've purchased your Manchester and Mykonos sceneries and have been very happy with those purchases. I would also love to support LatinVFR's foray into X-Plane. Will the scenery be available through other retailers soon, such as Aerosoft/Simmarket/X-Plane.org store? 

p.s. what you guys are doing with the Avanti is looking really, really good.

Thanks!

Re Avanti: This is a long term project, and as you know will be totally free. Eventually will be a very good simulation of the plane, comparable with payware level offerings. Keep in mind, that although is free, is supported by X-Aviation and Gizmo64, and of course from us, as been a payware aircraft. This might tell you something...

Re LatinVFR: I can assure you that they are happy our cooperation, and the are looking forward to bring more of their sceneries to X-Plane. But, to be honest, all boil down to if it does any financial sense to do so. San Diego is a guide, and so far is looking good.

Re Retailers: On this subject, unfortunately I'm bound by agreements/contract/NDAs, to say what I would like to say, to you guys, that after all, with your money are supporting our efforts. It is available exclusively from X-Aviation. I can't say much more, just think if it is better for us the developers, will allow us to do more and better things to do in the future.

Again, thanks for your support!

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On 3/17/2017 at 6:26 PM, Airfighter said:

Without doubt MisterX6's airport looks very good, as freeware. But since you constantly doubt about the quality, here is comparison shot:

Y6a9iCw.png

Constantly, hmmm, please point out where I said that?  Don't put words in my mouth please.

The big difference is $20...either you settle for a very well done attempt by someone who was gracious enough to post it for free or you go the payware route...seems pretty simple.

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14 hours ago, Jimm said:

Constantly, hmmm, please point out where I said that?  Don't put words in my mouth please.

The big difference is $20...either you settle for a very well done attempt by someone who was gracious enough to post it for free or you go the payware route...seems pretty simple.

Here you go: 

May be constantly is not right, but two times this subject in the X-Plane's forum, both threads, in the same day you respond, with same tone.

$20 difference is exactly the difference between the quality of the 2 airports. And check also in the screenshot...same performance. 

X-Plane community is asking for FSX developers to come to X-Plane. We ,Icarus, have brought in X-Plane 2 developers. LatinVFR and Latinwings. And in a way that those sceneries are converted to X-Plane in a professional manner, not like "cheap rip offs", with both FSX and X-Plane developers into play, without one vanishing the other. Is there any other developer doing so?

If there is any critique about our product is welcomed. 

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Sometimes it makes me wonder if having high quality freeware is off-putting for payware developers. If I was making a payware airport and there was a decent freeware version, then I don't think personally I would put in the effort. I don't have either version of KSAN, but Icarus's Manchester airport is a really fantastic product.

I really do dislike the direct conversions from FSX to X-Plane that some developers do and charge for. The quality is often low and the models are horribly optimised without HDR lighting, etc. Using FS2XPlane is really not a solution any payware developers should be using (Have they lost their original source files for some reason?)

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9 minutes ago, Airfighter said:

Here you go: 

May be constantly is not right, but two times this subject in the X-Plane's forum, both threads, in the same day you respond, with same tone.

$20 difference is exactly the difference between the quality of the 2 airports. And check also in the screenshot...same performance. 

X-Plane community is asking for FSX developers to come to X-Plane. We ,Icarus, have brought in X-Plane 2 developers. LatinVFR and Latinwings. And in a way that those sceneries are converted to X-Plane in a professional manner, not like "cheap rip offs", with both FSX and X-Plane developers into play, without one vanishing the other. Is there any other developer doing so?

If there is any critique about our product is welcomed. 

My tone? I was merely pointing out that there are alternatives, not trashing the endeavors of a payware developer, but to help provide options to people who are looking in to add-ons for X-Plane.  As for the cheap rip-offs, to what are you referring to?  There are many talented people in the X-Plane community, providing some great add-ons, and I for one, am encouraged by that, but I have also seen a large uptick in users utilizing programs to port old FSX scenery into X-Plane, yet keeping it to themselves.

As for your screenshots, I did see that your fps count was the same, but that should not be taken as a definitive performance guarantee.  As this has been discussed more than it should have with the other sims and X-Plane is no different right now, performance varies from system to system.  I will say that it is nice to see professional developers getting into the mix right now and it is encouraging, but let us also not discount the hard work of the talented community that exists right now.

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9 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Sometimes it makes me wonder if having high quality freeware is off-putting for payware developers.

I see nothing wrong with someone, like MisterX6, for example, putting their talents to work for the good of the community.  Honestly, that guy should be selling his work (which as I understand he will be with his upcoming version of KSLC), but in general, he's given a lot to the community and it is appreciated by a great many people.  Take a look at how many airports have been done and redone by different developers (and independent users) over the years, for FSX?  For that, it was the evolution of technology that helped to transform the "lego brick" style designs to full fledged, detailed airports.

At the end of the day, we vote with our wallets, judging one over another depending on what we personally want in an add-on.  Some of the add-on airports I have seen over the years have a little too much detail and you wind up sacrificing performance for quality.  I had a conversation with a designer of XP scenery a couple of months ago, and we discussed some of his work.  He mentioned how he was trying to get a little more detail into parts of the scenery and I leveled with him, stating "how much time do we, as virtual pilots, spend at any given airport?"  Typically, for tubeliner pilots, it can be 20-30 minutes, with most of that time spent setting up the aircraft and getting on with operations for pushback, taxi and takeoff.  For GA flyers, it's less, and under normal circumstances, they don't typically fly out of major airports, so this brings me back to the subject of "how much is too much?".  Sure, seeing the interior of an airport is cool, but is it worth the performance hit?  Is it worth seeing ground crew walking around, or seeing a large amount of custom traffic on the tarmac?

These are all questions that I am sure users think about before they hit the buy button, but for the developer, they have to consider whether that extra piece of scenery or high resolution texture is worth the time to putting it in if no one will notice it?  As someone here at AVSIM once said "this is a flight simulator, not an airport simulator."   For immersion, it's always better to be docked at an airport that resembles the airport in real life, but whether we need all the fancy extra features, knowing it may hurt performance, is an issue that users need to answer for themselves.

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I own both Mykonos and Manchester and Icarus quality is out of question. Details sometimes worth 20$. I'm glad he started a continuative cooperation with LatinVFR and LatinWings because, no matter of how some say, availability of payware addons is what make the user base to increase. The final result is more addons are going to be developed because of the larger selling potential and this is going to benefit all the community.

MisterX moving to payware is the proof that quality in the end must be payed, he built an awesome reputation and now he's naturally trying to cash in all the time spent doing freeware stuff.

My only doubt is about Icarus's choice to distribute his work on one exclusive seller. This is going to make me skip this KSAN rendition but I guess he's done well his commercial evaluation, good luck hoping the next title will sell also on the org.

Terminal interiors is typical one feature that help selling a title, we all agree that it adds little to immersion but in the FSX world I bet you have to resort to something different to boost sales because of the general inflation of addons (just think to how many airports have now more than a different developer).

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43 minutes ago, Desaix said:

My only doubt is about Icarus's choice to distribute his work on one exclusive seller. This is going to make me skip this KSAN rendition but I guess he's done well his commercial evaluation, good luck hoping the next title will sell also on the org.

 

i guess it always boils down to piracy protection, which x-aviation offers the best on the x-plane market. but i guess it is best to just skip the question as it always attracts the wrong crowd and the thread degenerates quickly ;)

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48 minutes ago, Desaix said:

I own both Mykonos and Manchester and Icarus quality is out of question. Details sometimes worth 20$.

My only doubt is about Icarus's choice to distribute his work on one exclusive seller. This is going to make me skip this KSAN rendition but I guess he's done well his commercial evaluation, good luck hoping the next title will sell also on the org.

I own Manchester, and share your views about the quality,... as well as the disappointment that this one only sells through XA.

Cheers,

Pascal

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If it's not going to be sold at the org or other retailers, I will not purchase.  I agree, the extra detail on the exterior is worth $20.00, but think modelling the interior is a waste of resources.

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1 hour ago, pugilist2 said:

 modelling the interior is a waste of resources.

It really depends on the airport, sometimes rendering the rear of the terminal is wasting way more resources than a glass terminal in front of jetways where user usually set their departing point. Sometimes we get parking slots with counters, advertising panels, thousand of ground signs, ... which are only good to take some promo vids and then the terminal rendered with some repetitive textures that kill immersion.

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I would like to address the subject why X-Aviation only. To do so, I have to give you our view of things, but remain within the boundaries allowed by the contracts/agreements etc. we have signed.

When you are a small team, both in numbers and the financial department, you cannot handle alone the extra work/costs are required to sell you stuff yourself. So, working with a seller is the way to go.

Each seller's offerings are a bit different, so you have to make decisions what fits and serves you the best. And some other reason come to play, that I cannot refer to.

Why to sell it exclusively. Let's hypothesize that a product "A" has a retail price of $X. When sold, the developer of the product A receives $X-Y. Y is the seller's commission. If the product is also resold through another seller, which will receive a commission Z, then the developer will get $X-Y-Z. Now, please answer this question. You as a buyer, when you take out of your wallet $X to pay for that product, how much, of X, do think should developer should get? What % of X?

A few will say, but why X-Aviation? First of all, a X-Plane dedicated store will support the developer better...for obvious reasons. Second, beyond sceneries, our team is developing aircrafts too. So, GIZMO support is included, for our DC-9 project. Also, you might not know, we, Icarus, are developing the P180 Avanti II for X-Plane 11...for free! With full support, both from X-Aviation and Gizmo64! If you haven't. check about this here: 

 

Does this tell you something? Have you seen many stores/developers doing this? A few might have their own reasons, not my job to judge.But, X-Aviation is a very good store to buy some of the best addons in X-Plane. Personally, I don't have any problems with any retail in X-Plane world. We should not create "sides". Those who are doing so, are serving badly X-Plane community. I will leave you with a "fun fact". I work with X-Aviation, but personally I have spent more than 2x in x-plane.org store. Why not?

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23 hours ago, Airfighter said:

I would like to address the subject why X-Aviation only. To do so, I have to give you our view of things, but remain within the boundaries allowed by the contracts/agreements etc. we have signed.

When you are a small team, both in numbers and the financial department, you cannot handle alone the extra work/costs are required to sell you stuff yourself. So, working with a seller is the way to go.

Each seller's offerings are a bit different, so you have to make decisions what fits and serves you the best. And some other reason come to play, that I cannot refer to.

Why to sell it exclusively. Let's hypothesize that a product "A" has a retail price of $X. When sold, the developer of the product A receives $X-Y. Y is the seller's commission. If the product is also resold through another seller, which will receive a commission Z, then the developer will get $X-Y-Z. Now, please answer this question. You as a buyer, when you take out of your wallet $X to pay for that product, how much, of X, do think should developer should get? What % of X?

A few will say, but why X-Aviation? First of all, a X-Plane dedicated store will support the developer better...for obvious reasons. Second, beyond sceneries, our team is developing aircrafts too. So, GIZMO support is included, for our DC-9 project. Also, you might not know, we, Icarus, are developing the P180 Avanti II for X-Plane 11...for free! With full support, both from X-Aviation and Gizmo64! If you haven't. check about this here: 

 

Does this tell you something? Have you seen many stores/developers doing this? A few might have their own reasons, not my job to judge.But, X-Aviation is a very good store to buy some of the best addons in X-Plane. Personally, I don't have any problems with any retail in X-Plane world. We should not create "sides". Those who are doing so, are serving badly X-Plane community. I will leave you with a "fun fact". I work with X-Aviation, but personally I have spent more than 2x in x-plane.org store. Why not?

Thanks so much for your engagement in this forum!  I'm looking forward to purchasing your KSAN scenery.

AND...do you have any other teaser information on the DC-9 project?  Will you be including early variants like the -10, -15 or -20?  Would love to see those, as the -50 starts to look and feel so much like the MD-80 series.

So exciting to hear about a DC-9!

Thanks, 

Bill

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23 hours ago, Airfighter said:

You as a buyer, when you take out of your wallet $X to pay for that product, how much, of X, do think should developer should get? What % of X

You get what you pay. X-Aviation provides no support and is down right condescending to it's customers. And that behavior impacts your sales. So in the end, are you getting more %??

I agree that we need more quality payware for X-plane, but the effort is negated if it comes via X-Aviation. I would love you give you money for this scenery, but it's not going to happen.

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13 hours ago, wcschulz3 said:

Thanks so much for your engagement in this forum!  I'm looking forward to purchasing your KSAN scenery.

AND...do you have any other teaser information on the DC-9 project?  Will you be including early variants like the -10, -15 or -20?  Would love to see those, as the -50 starts to look and feel so much like the MD-80 series.

So exciting to hear about a DC-9!

Thanks, 

Bill

Thanks a lot Bill! My pleasure to take part in the conversation! I don't think that been a developer, I have obtained a "celebrity" status to be somewhere...high above all...unreachable! 

I would soon a detailed article in my blog about DC-9 with all the details. So keep in touch with us!

13 hours ago, rototom said:

You get what you pay. X-Aviation provides no support and is down right condescending to it's customers. And that behavior impacts your sales. So in the end, are you getting more %??

I agree that we need more quality payware for X-plane, but the effort is negated if it comes via X-Aviation. I would love you give you money for this scenery, but it's not going to happen.

This negativity is exactly what I'm talking about. Using false claims, aka X-Aviation does not provide support, you are taking sides with or against someone. On a public conversation, as is here, would be better to provide facts. Solid facts. If you personally have problems with XA and haven't been solved, or you think that you have been mistreated, do ahead, provide facts. Otherwise...there is a "modern" term for that situation...

X-Plane with 11 version grows a lot. Few months ago, in AVSIM screenshot forum, barely you could find any X-Plane screenshots. X-Plane related threads were about 1 to 10...to 20. If you go now, X-Plane related threads are the majority. Simmers like it! But creating negativity regarding one of main X-Plane sellers with false claims, is poisoning.

Here in Greece there is a wise quote: "Better to be first in the village, rather last in the city". X-Plane is growing to be a city. That stuff drag it down. Maybe some want X-Plane to be small, so they will be "first". We don't! That's why we are working with FSX developers. To make, from our part and with our powers, X-Plane bigger. The next city that will harbor the simmers' dreams!  

I will ask @Cameron XA to provide us here, or I will post them within the day, the latter statics about support tickets X-Aviation have received and the percentage of solving those tickets. Spoiler Alert.... you are totally wrong! But we will see the evidence.

 

 

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I have the Icarus KSAN because i have the LatinVFR version for Prepar3D.... not sure if it my system or it needs optimisation. ON X-plane 10 it turns into a slideshow and in X-Plane 11... it kills my video card and crashes  X-plane, but it does look awesome

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7 hours ago, desdichado said:

I have the Icarus KSAN because i have the LatinVFR version for Prepar3D.... not sure if it my system or it needs optimisation. ON X-plane 10 it turns into a slideshow and in X-Plane 11... it kills my video card and crashes  X-plane, but it does look awesome

Please post in the support forums, were we can provide you full support. It is quite hard to troubleshooting throughout the internet! Also, there will be concentrated any problems/suggestions/tips, so it will be easily searched.

http://forums.x-pilot.com/forums/forum/211-san-diego-intl-airport/

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9 hours ago, Airfighter said:

I will ask @Cameron XA to provide us here, or I will post them within the day, the latter statics about support tickets X-Aviation have received and the percentage of solving those tickets. Spoiler Alert.... you are totally wrong! But we will see the evidence.

Your going to ask for statistics regarding support from X-Aviation? Do you recognize the conflict of interest here? Not interested in fudged numbers, but thanks for offer.  Monitor the forums, and you'll soon find the evidence. I hear it from real customers.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me, because I won't do business with X-Aviation. If you want to, by all means go for it.

I'm just as interested in seeing X-plane grow, so I'm off to the org to buy more stuff...

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1 hour ago, rototom said:

Your going to ask for statistics regarding support from X-Aviation? Do you recognize the conflict of interest here? Not interested in fudged numbers, but thanks for offer.  Monitor the forums, and you'll soon find the evidence. I hear it from real customers.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me, because I won't do business with X-Aviation. If you want to, by all means go for it.

I'm just as interested in seeing X-plane grow, so I'm off to the org to buy more stuff...

Mr Shield,

I'd appreciate if you'd stop making attempts to spread false information about lack of support.

There are a number of individuals here and in the community as a whole who have made claims like this over time. In almost every one of these cases there was much more to the story than was being told, and piracy had a lot to do with many of those cases. I won't elaborate on this further because it's a waste of time, but the evidence is overwhelming on these individuals. When they ultimately get caught (and often times even will admit the offense to us in support channels), they will come here in a rage over the fact they have lost access to said product(s). This usually results in the immature line of "I'm not getting any support." Sadly, this is something we have to deal with when taking overall demographics into consideration for this user base. And, just so we're clear, we never assume someone is stealing or sharing. It's beyond reasonable doubt once we reach that point.

Anyways, for those that want information, we can see anywhere between 700-1500 support tickets in a week depending on the situation (how soon after a sale or new product, etc). I know this information doesn't interest you, but I'll post the stats of our last three days here for everyone to look at.

Stating we do not provide support is simply not true, and I certainly don't appreciate you trying to assert such (especially not even being a customer of ours with your own experience). Trusting everything you read with regards to negativity and not understanding the full story from someone is akin to you trusting every story you read in the National Enquirer. Junk!

Screen%20Shot%202017-03-22%20at%202.40.2

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1 hour ago, Cameron XA said:

Trusting everything you read with regards to negativity and not understanding the full story from someone is akin to you trusting every story you read in the National Enquirer. Junk!

There is a very weird agenda among a certain core of XP users, that seem hell bent on destroying the thing they like, or seriously limiting its future. As a fairly new XP devotee I'm baffled by what goes on over this side of the fence.

I would not want to be a developer trying to break in to the XP market, that's for sure.... yikes :bengong:

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