Skywolf

QW 787 FSX Feedback/First Impressions Only Thread

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Hey everyone,

 

I would like to create a thread for only QW 787 FSX First Impressions and Feedback.  Please try to keep discussion within these parameters.  I know lot of simmers are excited about this release.  Lot of threads go into FSX vs P3D etc. and I humbly request we all do NOT go there.

Bug reporting should be minimum, as they have official forum support on QW site and those conversations should go there.

Excited to read your feedback about this addon.

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Above Aerosoft quality.

 

However i expect Aerosoft to raise the bar with their new airbuses, with the 787 they're a little bugs such as when intercepting the loc and 1 or 2 sound blunders  nevertheless, this aircraft has potential to make the large amount of tunnel vision PMDG happy fans try another aircraft.

 

I'm not sure if more features are planned for P3D V4 lot's of people were complaining about the potential for OOMS but this plane neatly has a VAS reader in the cockpit and thus far VAS consumption is very low. ( 1 hour flight and 5 hour flight )

 

 

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Currently doing a first flight with it. It's a lovely looking thing, gets good FPS and has a very comprehensive FMC, the EFB has a lot of nice features, but not all of the ones you might expect, although I'll be honest, I'm not fully conversant with it yet, so that could be just me not working it correctly. It does have a nice VAS usage display feature on the PFD, which i should imagine will be handy for FSX.

It flies beautifully by hand incidentally.

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Just a few circuits to get a feel of it and a couple of short haul flights done with this so far without fully reading the manual. Appearance wise the 787 has been beautifully modelled both inside and out and the cockpit feels very 'immersive'. The sound also seem very realistic although I have only had one real world flight in a (Virgin) 787 to compare it with. Up to now, all my flights in the QW 787 have either been manual or using the autopilot and I have not yet started playing around with the FMC, but my dominant first impression is that this is just one beautiful aircraft to hand fly! So nice actually that I am not sure I want to let the FMC fly it 😉!!

Bill

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7 minutes ago, scianoir said:

my dominant first impression is that this is just one beautiful aircraft to hand fly! So nice actually that I am not sure I want to let the FMC fly it 😉!!

Bill

Yup, I'm in complete agreement there, it is lovely to fly by hand, and that's good because even though I will usually put a SID on my flight plans, I often hand fly them and don't stick it on LNAV until pointing at the destination, and that's really easy to do with the QW 787, especially since the EFB can display those SIDs nice and large for you to get a good handle on the turns coming up.

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I have asked Flight1 for a refund for the QualityWIngs 787. Not because I didn't like it. I really did - it is beautiful inside, out - but it's a bit heavy on the VAS end, in my experience... 

I'll await the release for Prepar3D V4 - if it ever comes?!

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52 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

 it is beautiful inside, out - but it's a bit heavy on the VAS end, in my experience... 

I'll await the release for Prepar3D V4 - if it ever comes?!

VAS usage seems to be about the equivalent of the PMDG 777 which for me means deactivating almost all scenery except for origin and destination airports in order to fly it without OOMs. I can live with that for now as the aircraft is very good and most 787 flying is going to be high level anyway.  Not sure if it would survive an approach into some of the most VAS intensive airports like Aerosoft Frankfurt V2 though - time will tell!

Bill

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7 minutes ago, scianoir said:

VAS usage seems to be about the equivalent of the PMDG 777 which for me means deactivating almost all scenery except for origin and destination airports in order to fly it without OOMs. I can live with that for now as the aircraft is very good and most 787 flying is going to be high level anyway.  Not sure if it would survive an approach into some of the most VAS intensive airports like Aerosoft Frankfurt V2 though - time will tell!

Bill

You're probably right... 

I'll wait for the Prepar3D V4 version. If/when it comes...

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Did the basic tutorial flight which comes with the manual, which is not bad, it is a flight from Seattle to San Francisco up at FL350 which uses a simple but realistic route, a SID and an ILS approach, so that's very nice. It is not the only tutorial, this one being more of a 'get you up and running fairly quickly' type affair, but it is nonetheless quite realistic, including a cold and dark start, programming the FMC, linking the EFB to the FMC and flying the whole flight.

Note that for anyone trying this one, there is an issue with it, which is easy to sort out, but worth pointing out anyway. The tutorial tells you to start at KSEA at gate C10, but the problem is, on the default settings, this will load your aeroplane nose in to gate C10 as you'd expect, but  then if you try to use the 787's config panel to display the ground power start cart, you can't; it can't load into the sim because the jetway at gate C10 on the default FSX scenery prevents it from materialising, so you would not be able to do the cold and dark start up, of course all you need to do is push back a little bit from the jetway to solve this problem by hitting Shift+P, but they should have tested that a bit more and thought about it being a potential problem for new users who might not be familiar with how to push back in FS. I suspect that someone has tested the tutorial with add-on KSEA scenery and that's why this went unnoticed.

There are a few minor typos in the tutorial too, and it could be a little more helpful on pointing out where switches and such are for those less familiar with airliners; for example, simply telling the user to 'turn on the fuel flow switches' for the engines when starting them up is fine for people who are used to airliner cockpits and know these are located near the throttle levers, but to someone who does not know that, only showing a picture of the overhead panel on the page which mentions doing this will probably have people confused if flying an airliner is new to them. Not a problem for people who fly airliners a lot of course, but something which could be a little bit better; a manual which is a tutorial should not assume anything about a user, and especially on an airliner with which most people are not that familiar.

Beyond these minor niggles, the tutorial flight is good and does a decent job of teaching you how to use the EFB properly in combination with the FMC and I don't think anyone would really have much difficulty with learning how to fly the aeroplane properly with this tutorial proving they knew a little bit about aeroplanes.

Throughout the flight the VAS varied between 3.0 and 3.4Gb with FS on pretty high settings, so it never got really very close to worrying me, although I was using the default FS airports, so that probably helped, nevertheless, I did have FS AI traffic up very high and it is using Ultimate Traffic, and the DX10 fixer was doing cloud shadows, plus the scenery detail levels were up high too, so it's not as if I was desperately having to try to keep that VAS figure down, but if necessary I could certainly have done so, because there would have been plenty I could have turned off. although the frame rate was up and down like a yoyo, it never actually stuttered or lagged, nor did it ever drop to a point where it was unflyable, I'd say it easily averaged a decent 30fps and would probably have done more if FRAPS had not been running.

The 787 can be a slippery SOB on descent, but in fact this is where one of its features really makes it shine, that being the VSD on the PFD if you put a STAR into your flight plan, as that really helps with picking when to start down and when to start dirtying up the configuration, this is actually done a lot better in this simulated airliner than any other one I've seen, so if you're considering buying, look out for that feature because it is really great.

For the landing I decided to forgo using the ILS and fly the approach manually using the collimated HGS, which is another excellent feature that is done really well. Providing you've put all the VREF stuff into the FMC for your approach, manually flying it even with the autothrottle disengaged is really easy to do, because it is so nice to fly. You can see from the pics that I got it right on the piano keys no problem whatsoever, and this was literally the second landing I've ever tried in the thing, and with autobrake 2 used and a bit of reverse thrust, it came to a stop without any drama.

Some pics...

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Close to a tail strike?? :blink: :tongue:

 

It does look like a very nice "big iron" toy to have in FSX:SE thanks for the runthrough, Alan.

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6 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Close to a tail strike?? :blink: :tongue:

Nah, it can look a bit like that from certain angles, certainly from a looking down viewpoint, but unless you really took the mickey with the deck angle it wouldn't tail strike. Here's a screenshot from the front of the same paused moment at touchdown, you can see it's nowhere near, and you know this is the exact same moment and not a blag, the flight sim info is exactly the same!

SOALqCS.jpg

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On 10/10/2017 at 7:27 AM, VSP4264 said:

Good plane, but for me, elevator locked during take-off run... whats up?

Wrong trim?

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summary of the things that drive me mad about that thing. im only listing the negs. plenty of people will give it vague praise as is.

visuals:

displays are not pleasant to look at. there are no effects on them - it's literally computer font on black blackground. it looks exactly the same if you draw lines yourself in MSPAINT. that's exactly how they look inside the sim. if you didn't know it, you would never think there are screens there!

 even 2014's aerosoft airbuses did miles better in simulating the LCDs, in 2014 with code that at that point was 5 years old. also antialias seems to really not work on them. always jagged no matter what. it aint no pmdg and for the size of those screens, no excuse either. also no brightness adjustment at all. nada. zip.

vc textures are ok but look cartoony in spots. the color of the boeing is a tough one to capture, i'll give them that but they didn't put much effort to make it less drawn.  carpet is too grainy. but im mostly concerned with glareshield.

systems:

VNAV only works if you don't change anything during flight. 

LNAV cannot follow the line. sharp turns and curves confuse it. it generally doesn't like to  turn period. major issues changing between lnav and heading modes. lnav is  as bad as the CRJ when it came out basically....  totally frustrating inexcusable issue to sell this with.

funny things:

the click zones for the window shades are too huge. everything is a click zone for those. WHY??????

the windows do not open. no you didn't run out of animations. so why not model that? you (qw) never do those on your planes but the first few times I could give you a pass given it was 30$. again for that price point on this beta, no excuse. yes I like my windows opening. especially when there's so many other things that are off.

trim has a delay limit. you can only change it so fast. quick trimming the plane is impossible. it will only click once per second no matter what you do. and  you have to release the button to reset the counter before it will trim again. way more annoying than the 777 (which has the same horrible digital trim gizmo logic). 

tldr: needs patches bad and fast.  but they don't care.

 

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8 hours ago, adam wackawski said:

 

the windows do not open. no you didn't run out of animations. so why not model that? you (qw) never do those on your planes but the first few times I could give you a pass given it was 30$. again for that price point on this beta, no excuse. yes I like my windows opening. especially when there's so many other things that are off.

 

 

I have never really understood why people want windows opening, seats reclining, arm rest bars rising and tables sliding. I can imagine people clicking the object a couple of times and then not using it again. I agree though the glass screens don't look right for some reason.

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10 minutes ago, sanh said:

I have never really understood why people want windows opening, seats reclining, arm rest bars rising and tables sliding. I can imagine people clicking the object a couple of times and then not using it again. I agree though the glass screens don't look right for some reason.

Yup, it's kind of fun to click on the cockpit seats and see them motor backwards out of the way as they do on the real thing, but we don't actually need that at all in a sim version since it's not like we can bang our virtual knees and shins on the pedestal when climbing into the seats like you do (especially) on a Boeing 737. So although that kind of stuff is cool, it's not really gonna get used that much, if at all.

Theoretically it might be useful to open the windows if the P3D version implements the rain on the windows effect, since it might help with visibility when parking or pushing back, but then again, in the sim we can hit S and go to an external view, so again it isn't a showstopper to not have opening windows.

I do agree that the QW 787 doesn't appear to be the best at tracking LNAV if a turn is tight, but it's not terrible, just could be a bit better. Actually the sim aeroplane in which I've seen this done best is, coincidentally, the 787's rival; the Airbus A350 for XPlane by Flight Factors. That one tracks LNAV turns in the way the real Airbus actually does in terms of how the calculations are worked out by its systems, i.e. not all turns are calculated in the same way, it will make different control inputs depending upon the type of turn, and you can tell it does that when you fly it because it is way better at it than any other flight sim aeroplane I've come across.

As far as the displays and cockpit texturing is concerned, whilst I do think it is indeed a bit flat and computerish in comparison to some VC efforts, this is something which I think bothers me less than it does some others. Sure, I like nice looking VCs, but it's less important to me than the displays being clear to read, so I personally don't regard that as too much of a minus point. I also suspect that with the FSX version being already up on 3.0Gb of VAS just parked at the gate and rising to 3.5Gb on flights, it may very well have been a sensible design decision to not go too fancy with the cockpit display rendering. This is something PMDG do too, where you can drop the display refresh rate to 15fps on their aeroplanes in order to assist performance, and it is certainly something designers have to consider when working within the limitations of FSX. Again, yes it is nice initially to  see PFDs which appear to have greasy fingerprints on them, but after a while I wish I could reach for a virtual cloth and wipe the things down lol.

Of course there are limits to how far I want to see designers going a bit more low-fi on VC design choices, and a good example of that would be the iFly 737s in comparison to the PMDG ones. I really like the iFly NG, but it is right on the ragged edge of being too low fidelity visually in comparison to the PMDG one. Any lower and I'd not be a fan of it.

Maybe we will see the P3D version of the 787, take advantage of more VAS room in this visual regard, although I for one will not be too concerned if it remains the same. I would hope that QW can have a look at the LNAV tracking and see if it can be tweaked a bit, although not at the expense of how it hand flies, since it undeniably is a lovely thing to hand fly.

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It might be useful to move an armrest out of the way of something on the centre pedestal rather than messing with the view - Some of us don't have chaseplane and panning with the hat switch only goes so far before I may have to think about using Ctrl-Shift Enter backspace and their combinations.

Note that I don't yet have the 787 so just generalising.

I would sooner see animations for more "important" stuff accurate control surface & gear motions. I don't even need to see the cabin - hearing the cabin and the cabin crew on the other hand is more immersive IMHO, especially when the days of sparking up a Chesterfield and wandering back to chat to passengers is long gone :) 

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5 hours ago, sanh said:

I have never really understood why people want windows opening, seats reclining, arm rest bars rising and tables sliding. I can imagine people clicking the object a couple of times and then not using it again. I agree though the glass screens don't look right for some reason.

well tbh the seats make sense because when you adjust your view position, if you jam your "camera" into the seat/headrest it prevents your mouse from engaging buttons. so moving the seat when its in the way is desired vs moving the view to a compromise position or zoom. so that at least has functional use.

 

the windows yes are completely cosmetic but I love opening them up after a flight and hearing those ambient sounds rumble around especially if on a tropical airport. I also like to look around with the contrast between clear view and glass through view.. its a personal thing.. I do it almost every flight with the a320. does plenty for the immersion. some people also like to do virtual  walk around their plane. I don't do that but I can certainly understand why they would do that.

I remember QW promising an actual CABIN for this plane. they even showed us the cabin fully modeled! that is gone too (makes sense cause of vas). but a lot of the preview features were nixed. you can go back to 2015 and still see those images

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4 hours ago, Chock said:

Yup, it's kind of fun to click on the cockpit seats and see them motor backwards out of the way as they do on the real thing, but we don't actually need that at all in a sim version since it's not like we can bang our virtual knees and shins on the pedestal when climbing into the seats like you do (especially) on a Boeing 737. So although that kind of stuff is cool, it's not really gonna get used that much, if at all.

Theoretically it might be useful to open the windows if the P3D version implements the rain on the windows effect, since it might help with visibility when parking or pushing back, but then again, in the sim we can hit S and go to an external view, so again it isn't a showstopper to not have opening windows.

I do agree that the QW 787 doesn't appear to be the best at tracking LNAV if a turn is tight, but it's not terrible, just could be a bit better. Actually the sim aeroplane in which I've seen this done best is, coincidentally, the 787's rival; the Airbus A350 for XPlane by Flight Factors. That one tracks LNAV turns in the way the real Airbus actually does in terms of how the calculations are worked out by its systems, i.e. not all turns are calculated in the same way, it will make different control inputs depending upon the type of turn, and you can tell it does that when you fly it because it is way better at it than any other flight sim aeroplane I've come across.

As far as the displays and cockpit texturing is concerned, whilst I do think it is indeed a bit flat and computerish in comparison to some VC efforts, this is something which I think bothers me less than it does some others. Sure, I like nice looking VCs, but it's less important to me than the displays being clear to read, so I personally don't regard that as too much of a minus point. I also suspect that with the FSX version being already up on 3.0Gb of VAS just parked at the gate and rising to 3.5Gb on flights, it may very well have been a sensible design decision to not go too fancy with the cockpit display rendering. This is something PMDG do too, where you can drop the display refresh rate to 15fps on their aeroplanes in order to assist performance, and it is certainly something designers have to consider when working within the limitations of FSX. Again, yes it is nice initially to  see PFDs which appear to have greasy fingerprints on them, but after a while I wish I could reach for a virtual cloth and wipe the things down lol.

Of course there are limits to how far I want to see designers going a bit more low-fi on VC design choices, and a good example of that would be the iFly 737s in comparison to the PMDG ones. I really like the iFly NG, but it is right on the ragged edge of being too low fidelity visually in comparison to the PMDG one. Any lower and I'd not be a fan of it.

Maybe we will see the P3D version of the 787, take advantage of more VAS room in this visual regard, although I for one will not be too concerned if it remains the same. I would hope that QW can have a look at the LNAV tracking and see if it can be tweaked a bit, although not at the expense of how it hand flies, since it undeniably is a lovely thing to hand fly.

I too am looking towards upcoming patches. What im not looking forward to is how long it historically takes them to make those. But we shall see, since they have a lot riding on this they might expedite. Oddly enough the refresh rate on the displays is perfect which I think is whatever your actual fps are. PMDG's I think I keep them all on 20fps.basically anything over 20 on a lcd will provide pretty fluid view. you will never come close to the fluidity of the leveld tho but that thing is literally too resource efficient to not be smooth as it gets.

 

Due to vas im seeing Africa a lot in this planes fsx future.. long flights over empty barren water and nothing on the land itself should keep it happy. pretty much same as with the 777. no KLAX to EHAM (at least not with aftermarket on those airports and regions).

 

I am cautiously excited about this adding features near the end of the prepar 4 life cycle when the sim itself is stable. It appears they might time that version in time for that not on purpose but just due to how long it takes them.  Should be pretty awesome by then if they capitalize on all that will be possible (like weather effects that are finally being worked on by Lockheed)

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14 hours ago, adam wackawski said:

 displays are not pleasant to look at. there are no effects on them - it's literally computer font on black blackground. it looks exactly the same if you draw lines yourself in MSPAINT. that's exactly how they look inside the sim. if you didn't know it, you would never think there are screens

the windows do not open. no you didn't run out of animations. so why not model that? you (qw) never do those on your planes but the first few times I could give you a pass given it was 30$. again for that price point on this beta, no excuse. yes I like my windows opening. especially when there's so many other things that are off. 

tldr: needs patches bad and fast.  but they don't care.

 

- There are material effects on the displays, including subtle/blurred reflections and dust. 

- Odd thing to complain about, given the fact that the actual 787 flight deck windows do not open. (There is an escape hatch in the ceiling)

- A hotfix was released today, barely over a week after release. But like you said, we don't care. :biggrin:

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Fantastic Posts everyone.  Great feedback.  So easy to read info about this bird.

 

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1 hour ago, anthonyg96 said:

 

Anthony, you quoted scianoir and forgot to add a reply? Or did you reply inside his quote?

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3 hours ago, Kyle Schurb said:

- There are material effects on the displays, including subtle/blurred reflections and dust. 

- Odd thing to complain about, given the fact that the actual 787 flight deck windows do not open. (There is an escape hatch in the ceiling)

- A hotfix was released today, barely over a week after release. But like you said, we don't care. :biggrin:

oooh ooooh I got a dev to read this and comment. my mission in life is achieved. seriously tho, keep the current level of not caring. I can live with that. wink

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