Regional Jet Choices in P3DV4

[barramundilure]

Hi everyone I have many Australian and USA airport sceneries installed in my new P3DV4 world and now I need a good regional aircraft.  I do have the Majestic Dash 8 for my shorter hops but it wont cut it for longer cross country stuff.

I have had the PMDG B737 (and B777) in the FSX world and was very happy with them but i was annoyed about the pricing policy of PMDG and me having to pay full odds for it again for P3D.  I was told it was due to licencing issues but no other company in the FSX/P3D world seem have these same issues and approach it this way.   They have also recently said they are going to do an updated version which no doubt will mean i have to pay full odds yet again which makes me very nervous about committing to the current version.  I will almost certainly purchase any new version of it that comes out, as i am sure it will be excellent but a simply swapping from a FSX to P3D environment is not a good enough reason for me to submit for their strange pricing policies.

Before anyone gets upset at my comments above, I also acknowledge it is their right to implement any pricing policy they choose - just as it is my right to decide whether or not to buy it.  This is not meant to be a bashing exercise on PMDG but it is the reason that I don't feel particularly inclined to spend top dollar on a product that is reaching the end of its lifespan (B737). I will probably repurchase the B777 (much against the grain) because it has a lot more life left in it and we have no real other contenders to in that marketplace.

This seems to leave me with only a couple of choices in a solid simulation of regional jet aircraft, that being the TDi B717 and the newly released Maddog MD offering.  

I have always read good things about the Maddog for FSX but there are very few of them here in Australia making it a little unrealistic for Australian flying.  The B717 is reasonably common here in Australia and the USA which would suit me better but i am not sure how realistic this simulation is.  

I have quite a bit of real world flying experience under my belt from years ago and want something a little challenging - not just a toy.  I am not sure which would suit me better and any thoughts from the group would be appreciated.

Cheers Barra

[SolRayz]

How about the Aerosoft CRJ. Seems fairly encompassing, with a few niggles here and there, but worth the money. 

[SAS443]

Maddog is ahead in almost every possible way you can compare it to the tfdi 717 (which by no means is a bad addon).

Sometimes it is beneficiary to let go of realistic equipment for your routes and focus on enjoying the flight. The maddog will let you do just that.

[FishermanIvan]

Both the 717 and MD-82 are worth every penny.  

Comes down to what you wanna fly. 

[fakeflyer737]

I get terrible FPS with the 717. 

6700K 4.6 1080ti

[jlohrenz]

Aerosoft CRJ is nice.

[Bob Scott]

Well, if you had purchased the Maddog for FSX, you'd be paying "full odds" and buying it again in P3D now as well.  Keep in mind that there is a price tag for progress.  With new versions of P3D releasing multiple times a year, it takes a continuing effort to keep an add-on working with each new version.  The P3D v4.2 release, for example, broke some things that affected the PMDG 747, and PMDG had an update out for it less than 48 hours after P3D v4.2 released.  IMHO, that ongoing support tail is a big part of what I'm paying for when I get charged more or again for a P3D release, and to be fair, PMDG is not alone in charging for a 64-bit P3D version...the FSLabs A320, Majestic's DHC8 Q400, Flight1's and RealityXP's GTN Garmins, etc also had for-fee upgrades to their P3D and/or 64-bit versions...it's as much the rule as the exception.

The PMDG 737 v3 is still probably at least a couple years down the road, so the rumors of its end-of-life demise are, at least at this point, somewhat premature.  Personally it's still my go-to favorite, particularly because I can use one of several remote CDU apps to put remote touchscreen CDUs on a pair of second-hand iPads I use for the purpose, and again there's the ongoing support to keep it buffed-up and running well in each new release of P3D.

That said, the B717 is a contemporary short-range jet, if that matters to you.  Most of the real world MD-80s are already sitting in the boneyard.  The 717 is a modern full glass cockpit, where the MD-80 is a analog-digital hybrid with a lot less automation and a lot more workload.  I presently don't have either simulation now as a result of my aforementioned affinity for the 737NG, and a decision to keep to a small number of high-quality aircraft in my 64-bit fleet.  I did have the Maddog in FS9 and FSX and enjoyed it, but Leonardo pretty much vanished from their support role for a very long time (spanning years), and the Maddog fell out of favor in my fleet due to their nonpresence and lack of promised progress on a decent VC.  I'm glad to see them back, but my previous experience has me wondering if they're here to stay.

I don't see an obvious downside to any of them.

Cheers

 

[barramundilure]

Hi W6KD

I don't have Maddog for FSX so I'm not paying full odds at all for any upgrade.  Most of the companies you mention charged an upgrade fee.  That's fine and understandable, PMDG charged a lot more than the FSX full price for the B777 for example and stated its because of licencing issues....what rubbish.  It was a gouge plain and simple and not good policy but that is just my opinion of course.  

In any case I didn't come here in any case to debate the PMDG policy as i mentioned in my original post, just why Im not considering it for my next regional aircraft.

I thank you all for your input so far into the subject.

[Bob Scott]

I paid 38 Euros for the FSX Maddog...now if I want the P3D 64-bit version I must pay 65 Euros.  That's 71% more than the full FSX price for the MaddogX.

I paid $70 (56.70 Euro) for the PMDG NGX for FSX, to buy it for for P3D it's $90 (72.90 Euro).  That's 21% more than the full FSX price of the 737NGX.

Why is PMDG's 21% P3D premium a gouge, but Leonardo's 71% premium over the FSX version not?  Their pricing structures are remarkably similar...you buy the P3D version for either with no discount for having the FSX version.

I understand it's not the intention of your post to debate it, but since you put it out there, it's subject to fair comment.

Personally, I don't think the pricing for either addon a "gouge" at all...but if you think PMDG's pricing policy is bad policy, why would you give a pass to Leonardo for doing the same thing but at a premium over 3 times higher?

Regards

 

[jomcci]

@w6kd I think your comparison isn’t as good. The maddog is a rebuild from scratch. Graphics are completely changed with added features!(rain effects, dynamic lights etc.) A lot of people say, it is the best texturing ever offered for P3D/FSX. 

You can compare it with the new PMDG 747 vs the old queen. However, 737 & 777 are exactly the same thing!! An no other company charged us like...PMDG was special regarding to this topic. Fine :-) We accept that, but it is not true at all that it is the same story with the others. 

 

BTT: I love the new Maddog. I would take this one and you will have the challenge. After familiarization, you can activate failures  

[YukonPete]

2 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

I get terrible FPS with the 717. 

6700K 4.6 1080ti

I get excellent FPS with the 717

8700K  1080ti 

[barramundilure]

2 hours ago, w6kd said:

I paid 38 Euros for the FSX Maddog...now if I want the P3D 64-bit version I must pay 65 Euros.  That's 71% more than the full FSX price for the MaddogX.

I paid $70 (56.70 Euro) for the PMDG NGX for FSX, to buy it for for P3D it's $90 (72.90 Euro).  That's 21% more than the full FSX price of the 737NGX.

Why is PMDG's 21% P3D premium a gouge, but Leonardo's 71% premium over the FSX version not?  Their pricing structures are remarkably similar...you buy the P3D version for either with no discount for having the FSX version.

I understand it's not the intention of your post to debate it, but since you put it out there, it's subject to fair comment.

Personally, I don't think the pricing for either addon a "gouge" at all...but if you think PMDG's pricing policy is bad policy, why would you give a pass to Leonardo for doing the same thing but at a premium over 3 times higher?

Regards

 

Thanks for your reply Bob

I suppose the difference to me is that I didn't already have the Maddog for FSX (i still don't for P3D either).  

From what I have seen as Jomcci pointed out, the Maddog was a very old and completely rebuilt product where as the B737 or B777 from PMDG is definitely not.  i owned the PMDG FS9 versions of the B737 and B747 as well and didn't object paying full price for the FSX versions because they were built from the ground up.  As far as I can see the P3DV4 B737 and 777 has exactly the same features ie a port overs.

Sure it would have required a good amount of work (which i don't object paying for) but you can't tell me the development cost was 150% more than the original FSX/P3Dv3 of the same product? 

We paid (happily) for the original product but I personally think it was greedy of them to charge 150% of the original product cost again for original purchasers to swap it from FSX/P3DV3 to the P3DV4 version of the same thing. 

Of course everyone is entitled to their point of view and I am sure others wouldn't necessarily agree with me.

Will it stop me totally buying PMDG products - No, but I will certainly be selective about what I purchase from them.  Do I feel they were having a lend of simmers in this case - yes I do.

I would also add that I had the fsx version of the Majestic Dash 8 and it cost me $30 to update from FSX to P3DV4 - a great add on at a very reasonable price.

Once again this was not intended to be the bashing exercise or debate it seems to be turning into.  PMDG build very nice products.

If others want to stick to the point of a what regional jet they think is a good and challenging version and why they would jump one way or another, i would be happy to hear from you. 

[Nyxx]

Thoughts on PMDG and pricing aside.

Ask yourself

Would you sooner have a PMDG NG in your hanger than a MD 80 -717?

If so you need to think is the gap between the price of MadDog/717 to get the NG worth it to you?. If you put their pricing aside and your #1 choice would be the NG then I suggest you dont cut of your nose to spite your face. Many here feel like you about what they did but I still bought the NG again and the 777. Was I happy to do so ? hell no.

I have the 717 and the MadDog. The Mad Dog feels a nice spot as its old school but not VOR-VOR. The 717 is also great.

Also if you are interested in getting the very best then FSL A320 is obscenely good and the money you spent on the other two go along way towards it.?

At the end of the day all the above are great just ask yourself what your "really" want. 

[barramundilure]

1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

Thoughts on PMDG and pricing aside.

Ask yourself

Would you sooner have a PMDG NG in your hanger than a MD 80 -717?

If so you need to think is the gap between the price of MadDog/717 to get the NG worth it to you?. If you put their pricing aside and your #1 choice would be the NG then I suggest you dont cut of your nose to spite your face. Many here feel like you about what they did but I still bought the NG again and the 777. Was I happy to do so ? hell no.

I have the 717 and the MadDog. The Mad Dog feels a nice spot as its old school but not VOR-VOR. The 717 is also great.

Also if you are interested in getting the very best then FSL A320 is obscenely good and the money you spent on the other two go along way towards it.?

At the end of the day all the above are great just ask yourself what your "really" want. 

Hi David I must admit the B737 was a favourite and perhaps you are right, however the thought of them coming out with the next version and having to pay up yet again is something I really don't want to think about.

I also dmit i had not even considered the FSL A320, as i thought it was most likely just eye candy and not a serious rendition of an A320.

I thought the Airbus logic was too complex for FSX/P3D programming, are you saying there have been breakthroughs in this?

It could certainly fit the bill.

[Nyxx]

1 hour ago, barramundilure said:

Hi David I must admit the B737 was a favourite and perhaps you are right, however the thought of them coming out with the next version and having to pay up yet again is something I really don't want to think about.

I also dmit i had not even considered the FSL A320, as i thought it was most likely just eye candy and not a serious rendition of an A320.

I thought the Airbus logic was too complex for FSX/P3D programming, are you saying there have been breakthroughs in this?

It could certainly fit the bill.

Wow, OK please allow me to enlighten you 

The FSL is simply in modern Jet aircraft "THE" best we can buy, it's the closest to a full level D simulation we will probably get. Eye candy is low on its list of outstanding features.

It's a waste of my time trying to tell you have good it is. A real world pilot does loads of videos on it. look up blackbox 711 on twitch or blackbox711 on youtube.

So to sum up since you have been living on the moon (joke) the FSL is all about how they have simulated this aircraft it's all about system depth and the utterly amazing the FBW in it.

Your right they said it could not be done, well it took them 7 years well 8 to the new update to v4.2 but we now have it