That would mean if you make your flight plan on simbrief for example, you have to transfer it in the sim...

I think this appoach is not worth it, it would take more time to download all the data between ny and LA for exemple than streaming the all scenery

47 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I ran a flight out of FlyTampa KLAS with MSE Nevada v3 and my visual quality was as good as MSFS 2020 trailer, if not better as my LOD out in the distant looked much better than the MSFS trailer, and my performance was rock solid.  I made video some time ago.

Screenshot or link to the video?

Also computer specs and tweaks you've made to the sim to get this visual quality?

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I ran a flight out of FlyTampa KLAS with MSE Nevada v3 and my visual quality was as good as MSFS 2020 trailer, if not better as my LOD out in the distant looked much better than the MSFS trailer, and my performance was rock solid.  I made video some time ago.

Can you share the video link?

Thanks

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by irrics

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

that kind of thinking assumes there is a huge untapped market of potential flight simmers out there in the wilderness, who don't know this thing called a flight simulator exists, unless it appears on a game console.

I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable assumption. Not many people are going to buy FSX today even if they might be interested in taking up flight simulation. I mean, if I decided that I was interested in taking up football video games, my first impulse would not be to buy Madden 2006.

And I think a lot of people are scared off of P3d because there are still people out there who think they must have a pilot's license or be directly in the process of getting one or they're breaking the law by using it.

Sometimes it takes a big-name company making a breakout product to drive interest. FSX was that product over a decade ago. Very few people were interested in desktop strategy games until Civilization came out. Same thing for real-time-strategy games - Not a popular category until Warcraft came along. Economic simulations were stagnant, and then Transport Tycoon and Rollercoaster Tycoon came out and they exploded.

Sometimes the breakout games are mystifying. I still don't understand the Candy Crush craze. 😉

I think if MS does this right, they'll have the Rollercoaster Tycoon of flight sims. I think there's an untapped market of people out there who want, but don't even know they want, in-depth simulation of advanced subjects.

Just look at the insane success of Kerbal Space Program. Who knew so many people wanted to learn about orbital mechanics? If you'd pitched that idea the year before it went into early access, most people would've said "yeah, a few nerds will buy it but it'll never be huge." And they'd have been dead wrong. That game got so popular that NASA got in on the action and helped create missions for it.

There's a lot of people out there who want to learn if the learning is fun and engaging. I think FS can do that, if they design it right.

 

 

52 minutes ago, eslader said:

 

There's a lot of people out there who want to learn if the learning is fun and engaging. I think FS can do that, if they design it right.

 

 

Absolutely. A lot of users on this forum assume that flight simulator fans are all hardcore PMDG loving Orbx downloading folk. That's not really true. Almost every person dreamed of becoming a pilot sometime during their childhood. Flying has and always will be a point of fascination for kids/teenagers, thus there absolutely is an untapped market. FSX had performance issues and P3D has huge barriers to entry for young casual gamers, FS2020 can overcome all of that.

If MS can develop compelling missions and a career mode that keeps gamers engaged then I can see FS taking off in the casual gaming space. It's actually a perfect type of game to twitch stream and if MS plays their cards right they have a true force on their hands. 

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by A330-300

1 hour ago, eslader said:

Just look at the insane success of Kerbal Space Program. Who knew so many people wanted to learn about orbital mechanics? If you'd pitched that idea the year before it went into early access, most people would've said "yeah, a few nerds will buy it but it'll never be huge." And they'd have been dead wrong. That game got so popular that NASA got in on the action and helped create missions for it.

Heh!

Kerbal Space Program is special.  If you wanted to learn orbital mechanics, there's the freeware Orbiter.  Not real pretty, too hardcore for many.  Kerbal is *fun*.  And NASA got into it because *they* were playing it themselves. 😄

Orbiter is the PMDG of space sims.  Kerbal is more like what we're hoping from MSFS or even what we had in Flight.  Intended to bring new people into the hobby by making it fun.

For me, the fun in Orbiter was recreating the Orion docking with Space Station 5 from the 2001 Space Odyssey package many times.  And doing reentries totally seat-of-the-pants.  And writing a launch-to-orbit autopilot for the Orion.  But hey, it's not like it's rocket science. 😄

Hook

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

.

I ran a flight out of FlyTampa KLAS with MSE Nevada v3 and my visual quality was as good as MSFS 2020 trailer, if not better as my LOD out in the distant looked much better than the MSFS trailer, and my performance was rock solid.  I made video some time ago.

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Well hopefully the base sim is at least as good as p3d with add-ons then. 

The other thing about kerbal space programme was/ is people like Scott Manley on YouTube. Interesting, knowledgeable people who can relate to different sort of audiences without being boring, or zany at the end. 

Man I loved KSP

Well I have severe doubts in this huge untapped market and I think even Microsoft is of this opinion. I think this is one of the key reasons why they put it into the game pass. If you are an XBox user you fly around some of the optical highlights and this was it. In a game pass systems this at least gives you some money. For these gamers you need money shoots this means some impressive  sights some impressive weather systems.and on PC and XBox. This is the main function for Microsoft. And the team can try to earn some money around it.and finance their further work and improvements. But will this ever be a home for Simulators like PMDG and A2A? Perhaps in a small plane, that a developer loves, but otherwise? I doubt it. I think its home and most important source of income will really be the game pass...The casual gamer that sometimes spends one to two hours to fly around. But is this really an environment where 3rd party developers wants to live? You are always competing agai8nst someone who has an unfair advantage against you and who really limits the prices that you can ask for your work. To be succesful it must look complex and perhaps feel complex than you might be able to really earn your money if Microsoft hasn't put your costs too high.

I like Orbiter too, to a point. I find the clunky interface to be off-putting. They had to bridge the gap between real world orbit planning (where it's planned months if not years before the mission by someone else, and the pilot, at most, hits a button at the right time) and actually making something that people want to use (where you plan orbit changes on the fly while you're sitting in space). But the tools they give you in-cockpit to plan maneuvers are kludgy and difficult to use.

And those seat of the pants re-entries might be fun, but they sure ain't realistic. The closest we ever came was Carpenter's Mercury-Atlas 7 mission where he screwed around, wasting fuel to the point where he almost got himself killed on re-entry and ended up splashing down long. Made Kraft so mad that he swore Carpenter would never fly again, and he didn't. Otherwise, re-entry burns are precisely calculated. There is no guesswork as to where/when you should burn in order to hit your target.

KSP teaches the same concepts as Orbiter, but with a more intuitive interface and one which allows in some ways a better simulation of how real spaceflight works because you can pre-plan everything and then MechJeb handles the timing.

Actually I think Microsoft should study those two titles, and work to make an aviation sim that simultaneously delivers the potential difficulty level of Orbiter, but with the ability to have a learning curve that feels more like KSP. If people are willing to plunk down money to learn esoteric stuff like orbital mechanics because KSP made it incredibly fun and engaging, imagine how many people would pay to learn how to sim-fly.

 

Those sorts of people will be in addition to the existing flight sim crowd, not instead of. IMHO

Just now, eslader said:

.Actually I think Microsoft should study those two titles, and work to make an aviation sim that simultaneously delivers the potential difficulty level of Orbiter, but with the ability to have a learning curve that feels more like KSP. If people are willing to plunk down money to learn esoteric stuff like orbital mechanics because KSP made it incredibly fun and engaging, imagine how many people would pay to learn how to sim-fly.

 

I’m boring myself now but I think this is exactly it. People will be attracted by the shiny things, let’s keep them with a sim that can be incredibly fun and engaging if you want it to be. 

4 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Kerbal Space Program is special.  If you wanted to learn orbital mechanics, there's the freeware Orbiter.  Not real pretty, too hardcore for many.  Kerbal is *fun*.  And NASA got into it because *they* were playing it themselves. 😄

Orbiter is the PMDG of space sims.  Kerbal is more like what we're hoping from MSFS or even what we had in Flight.  Intended to bring new people into the hobby by making it fun.

I had a blast with Kerbal. Literally a blast, with many Kerbals giving their lives to the space program in large explosions before I got the hang of it. 

It was fun, but I'm glad Orbiter is there for anyone who wants to dig deeper into space simulation. And that's the essential problem: can you combine both of those approaches? And what do you give up in making that compromise?

For example, one reason I wouldn't want to see Kerbal as a model for MSFS are the compromises made to attract more newbies to spaceflight. One of the big ones is the drastically reduced scale of the home planet compared to Earth. It's designed that way so newbies to space flight don't get bored with Earth-accurate flight times.to reach orbit. Same thing with distance to the other planets. Everything is scaled down to make it run faster and take less time in flight.

Kerbal was a successful game precisely because it ditched the more "boring" aspects of simulation, so it could appeal to people with short attention spans (and a love of blowing things up). 

Maybe the new MSFS will have missions and challenges to attract a few newbies who haven't already discovered FSX and XP on Steam. But I don't think we want a Kerbal level of dumbing-down to attract the wider audience that so many people here assume to be out there.

24 minutes ago, Superdelphinus said:

Those sorts of people will be in addition to the existing flight sim crowd, not instead of. IMHO

I am afraid you are mistaken. And I think we are in fact not their main use case, but we are part of their marketing. We are talking about it and that was the real reason for this trailer. For them it is successful marketing.

5 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Maybe the new MSFS will have missions and challenges to attract a few newbies who haven't already discovered FSX and XP on Steam. But I don't think we want a Kerbal level of dumbing-down to attract the wider audience that so many people here assume to be out there.

I fear this will in fact be one of their core systems. The4 pass system causes loops. They make the most money from casual users this means the next feature should attract more casuals.If the team drops from time to time an additional feature thats OK.. And on the otzher hand P3D and X-Plane will exactly target systems. But the world is simply no longer one to rule them all. But in fact I think this will be a real killer for FSX and probably many of the stores.