PMDG NG3 for the MSFS2020 will cost $139.99

[peppy197 165]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:20 AM, Baber20 said:

What a joke honestly. Microsoft should have some sort of regulation for this kind of word not allowed. They really need to step in and drop a hammer on these prices. This is absolutely not justified.

I agree. Someone is taking us for a (air) ride. I can live without 

[eslader 1,784]

1 hour ago, hangar said:

I'm not saying that PMDG should lower the quality of their work...im saying PMDG should provide the same high quality physics and sounds but less of the over-the-top options that many people don't need, as an alternative. BIG difference there.

First, I agree with you that Alabeo/Carenado is fine for what their goal is, which is to pump out a lot of planes so people can fill their hangers with different stuff to mess with. Nothing wrong with that.

 

But your statement I just quoted shows that you aren't getting the problem. Denny's would not hire Gordon Ramsay to cook their menu at their prices because they couldn't afford him. His salary demands would bankrupt them. By the same token, Gordon Ramsay would not offer a second "cheap" menu "for people who don't need over-the-top food" in one of his ultra-high-priced restaurants because he still has to pay his kitchen staff at the level he's paying them. They're gonna cost him the same whether they're making a $100 burger or a $5 burger, and if he tasks them with making diner food that sells cheaply, he'll run out of money.

It's the same thing with PMDG. Their devs are world-class, at the top of their game. They doubtless command a higher salary than developers from middle of the road developers. If PMDG tasks them with making a cheap version of their planes, they're still going to get paid the same as when they're working on the good one. 

When you get to the elite level, you can't afford to make low-end stuff without spinning up an entirely new company with a different staff.  And while that *can* work (VW/Porsche/Bugatti proves that) it's also unwieldy and can lead to other problems (VW's diesel scandal proves that). And why would PMDG want to do that, especially when there's already a lower quality 747 that comes with the sim?

 

[hangar 661]

It's not about being an elite developer so to speak or about their coders/artists demanding a higher salary because they are better (in some cases they may be and in other cases they are clearly not)...it's really all about marketing and generated revenue in the end, if you are talking about profits. That is the end-game.

But, if you are talking about how a proprietor decides to run his own business for reasons beyond profit then that is an entirely different concept and of course PMDG has the right to do that. But that doesn't mean that you can't have the same staff offer a less featured product earlier on in development for less money (which brings in extra revenue early on). Then sell the full featured version to the more hardcore crowd when the project is completed for the higher pricing.

It's all in how you plan. You're not making the same plane twice. If they lose 50% of new sales from beginners and 25% sales from GA flyers simply because those markets may not accept the high cost then why not plan to offer a slightly scaled down alternative earlier on during the development process? Most of the extra time ends up coming from all the extra fmc coding they do anyway...they could likely cut alot of that out and still have a very nice product to deliver early on that would fit into those other markets who are looking to spend less,  and then release the full version when it's 100% complete.

This a home based business they're running, not IBM...I don't see why they logistically can't do it (if they wanted). Most of the time that's what stops things like this...they get caught up in their own heads as being "branded" and think they are too good to bother offering a scaled down model but may potentialy at the same time just be shooting themselves in the foot.

I read someone saying that some devs think that they're better off with 1 customer who buys 1 product for $50, and other devs think they're better off with a customer who buys 5 products at $20. I happen to think that (in this genre anyway) it's possible to get both types of sales. in fact...case in point I believe to be some Flight1 products from the past who sell the early versions to us at a lower price and the higher end version to commercial vendors/end users at a much higher price.

Edited August 9, 2020 by hangar

[LHookins 3,103]

Anyone remember back when Dell made great computers, before they decided to go for the price conscious consumer market and ruined their reputation?  My first PC was a Dell 286 and every time I checked the specs on something it was better than it had to be, and better than I expected.  

Then came, "Dude!  Yer gettin' a Dell!"  They never got quite to the point of Packard Bell, but it was bad.  

Current Alienware isn't too bad, but it's expensive.

I'd rather PMDG kept up the quality.  I don't fly jet airliners, but I'm glad PMDG exists.

Hook

[Brandon01110 407]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:35 PM, Skywatcher said:

They could charge $500 and a night with your wife and people would still defend it.

gotta cover that overhead, right? 🦈

[Coneman 71]

Lol Lol Lol

[Kilo60 660]

I'll have my wallet ready.  Fully support PMDG and the quality aircraft they make.

 

Be glad we have devs like them to improve on our hobby!

 

I easily spend just as much on going out to dinner on a single evening...

 

 

[hangar 661]

26 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I'd rather PMDG kept up the quality

Yes of course they need to keep up the quality. It's not about lowering the "quality" though...it's about offering less features as an early option (as in an fmc with only 20 pages instead of 100 as an example). it can still be the same high quality workmanship as full featured PMDG products, only with certain non essential features omitted to suit the markets.

MS is doing it with MSFS (as many other software companies do this) and has nothing to do with cutting quality, only quantity.

Flight1  as a tiny company also did this as well as they serve the commercial markets along with the entertainment markets (offering lower prices to us wth the same products, albeit just missing some non essentials).

Edited August 9, 2020 by hangar

[RALF9636 1,971]

 

11 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

On 11/9/2019 at 2:31 PM, RALF9636 said:

I don't have any problem with a price like that

 

Predictably, at post 6 or 7 someone inevitably makes this statement......I mean, an addon developer could be charging $1000 for the privilege of pressing a few more buttons and someone would say he doesn't have a problem with a price like that. Same as it ever was.

I'm sincerely hoping that a lot of simmers will look at MSFS 2020, play it, and decide that this is all the realism they will ever need. 

 

I don't know why this old thread had been revived but if you take the time to quote an almost one year old post please do not take just a fraction of it out of context.

This was my complete post: 

On 11/9/2019 at 2:31 PM, RALF9636 said:

I don't have any problem with a price like that for a highly complex addon aircraft. To me the aircraft is by far the most important element of a flight simulator. And I only need one short/medium range airliner. I don't want to collect them all.

I paid roughly the same for the FSL A320 and by now I have about 500 hours on it. That makes less than 30 cents per hour.

Compare that to the time you spend at an addon airport that comes for say 30 $. You need to spend 100 hours there to get the same value for money.

Or compare it to the cost of any other leisure activity outside of flightsimming. What do you pay for going out for dinner, to the cinema, to a musical, to a concert?

[CaribbeanCLANK 134]

Do I think that PMDG's products are overpriced?? Not in my opinion. Do I think they are pricey??? Sure, but worth EVERY penny. My pennies think so. 

Seems to me the new sim's default airliners will offer novice simmers an affordable way to enjoy these aircraft types with a moderate amount of systems to learn. And I am sure over time there will be cheaper offerings from other developers with novice simmers in mind. I don't see the need for PMDG to "dumb down" their products.

PMDG's products are expensive but for some of us, there is a lot of value behind those price tags. 

[Wewk584 137]

2 hours ago, peppy197 said:

 

  On 11/9/2019 at 8:20 AM, Baber20 said:

What a joke honestly. Microsoft should have some sort of regulation for this kind of word not allowed. They really need to step in and drop a hammer on these prices. This is absolutely not justified.

I agree. Someone is taking us for a (air) ride. I can live without 

I doubt they would do it. Asobo specifically knows having a PMDG creating planes for your platform adds alot of legitimacy to this sim as a 'SIM'.  Even if many do not buy it, the option being there only helps the sim. And they said from the beginning they want this to be a sim above all else. 

And if PMDG had to sell it for less than they wanted , they wouldn't bother .. their target audience will use whatever sim has their products

I would agree that regulation would be needed if noone one else could make a 737-800 for the sim.. but anyone can. So a cheaper option is coming.  Since there is no default 737, someone could make one at default level and sell them for $10-$20 and make a killing.  or someone (carenado?) could make a $45 level 737. In seriousness there would be a market for it.   Im not really sure what price people consider fair since most of the complaints only make it clear $140 is not.

And now adays, most product software out there has DLC and , at least i personally, do not try to find the most expensive option, not buy it, and hold the price of it against the core product.  I buy the stuff i can afford/want ... or i buy nothing too..  Especially since this product is complete.. the dlc isnt required to complete it  So this and maybe an over $100 fslabs product wont define the store.. there will be tons of cheaper products available.

 

 

 

[737_800 434]

33 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Compare that to the time you spend at an addon airport that comes for say 30 $. You need to spend 100 hours there to get the same value for money.

I use the same logic when it comes to aircraft but this measurement doesn't work that well with airports. Since even if you are at the airport, you hang at the same parking spot. Even if you taxi to the runway or back to the gate, the most of the airport will stay unknown. Therefore I use a different approach when it comes to airports. When you pay $30, and do 30 landings, you paid $1 per landing. For 60 landings that would be $0,5. So do the calculation, except your base you probably won't fly 60 times to the same airport...(even if that depends on routemap)

Edited August 9, 2020 by 737_800

[odourboy 1,290]

It galls me a bit to shell out that kind of dough for a single add-on. But I do appreciate best in class and since it looks like I won't have to buy a ton of other add-ons to make MSFS look and feel great, I'll probably be able to spring for a few of the best and stay within a reasonable budget. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by odourboy

[Chock 17,769]

4 hours ago, cepact said:

And ? Just like you and anyone else, nobody is talking about entitlement relative to opinions here.

When people call us "entitled" because we complain about the price they are meaning we feel entitled to receive the product cheaper. Calling someone "entitled" because they express the opinion that the product is expensive is nothing more than an insult.

Erm, yes I know. that was a joke.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Chock

[Amon1973 1,421]

On 8/8/2020 at 11:18 AM, gunther said:

But hey ... they can claim to start a 737, 747 etc from cold and dark and pretend to be a glorified bus driver!

On a separate subject, I noticed that most of the 3PD aircraft announced so far, by the likes of Milviz, Iris etc appear to be re-hashed FSX/P3D planes. Someone on another thread said "beware the shovelware!" I will need serious convincing before spending money on any of these "ports", if that's what they are, including PMDG.

Totally agree, if the devs claim that a new MSFS release is a completely new product, how would we truly know if they are telling us the truth or not?