21 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

The roll mode on the FD is little touchy and flying blind and trusting solely on roll commands will cause you to correcting a tad late?

Correct! There are some real 737 ILS landings on "the tube" and there's no "walsing" of the diamond in regard to the FD! IMHO it needs to be more responsive. For PMDG and a bird I had to pay 3 times now, I would have wanted to see the best in simulation. It's not perfect.

I have ZERO problems with the FSL even with real WX and stronger winds.

Since you guys proved that it can be done, I rest my case.

@SAS443 and @C2615 hat's off to you guys. Great flying skills.

 

35 minutes ago, flyinpilot212121 said:

what are you using as a yoke?

Thanks!

And I use a PFC Saab Yoke (w. Hall Effect sensors). Steering the virtual 737 is very easy with that yoke 🙂

I think there is a bit of confusion what FD do. I know you all know but.. A flight director is a guidance aid that is overlaid on the Attitude indicator and shows the pilot of an aircraft the attitude required to follow a certain trajectory. FD also register RNP! If you are off by a mile but RNP for that leg is 10NM then FD will be centered. You do not fly ILS by FD, you follow glide slope and LLZ pointers (diamonds). FD follow the route loaded in CDU and read RNP. If RNP for a final approach usually 1 nm then FD will be centered regardless if  the aircraft nose are off due to the cross wind. For that you would look at FPV, not FD. For example, if an aircraft took off in a 15 Knot crosswind the Flight Director (FD) bar would register the pitch of the aircraft while the circular FPV would be located above the horizon and to the right or left.  The lateral deviation of the FPV provides a visual indication of drift caused by the crosswind, while the vertical deviation shows the aircraft's attitude or pitch.

 

"If you fly a final APP by hand you will always get situations where the FD is fully centered but the diamond is offsetted a lot to the left or right. This is simply wrong!"

You were probably flying with LNAV/VNAV still engaged so FD were reading the final leg loaded in CDU even though with A/P disconnected. So it is not wrong.  

I did my jumpseat ride few weeks ago in LGA with bad cross wind, FD were centered and FO was chasing diamonds, not FD.  

 

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by skysurfer

7 minutes ago, skysurfer said:

I think there is a bit of confusion what FD do. I know you all know but.. A flight director is a guidance aid that is overlaid on the Attitude indicator and shows the pilot of an aircraft the attitude required to follow a certain trajectory. FD also register RNP! If you are off by a mile but RNP for that leg is 10NM then FD will be centered. You do not fly ILS by FD, you follow glide slope and LLZ pointers (diamonds). FD follow the route loaded in CDU and read RNP. If RNP for a final approach usually 1 nm then FD will be centered regardless if  the aircraft nose are off due to the cross wind. For that you would look at FPV, not FD. For example, if an aircraft took off in a 15 Knot crosswind the Flight Director (FD) bar would register the pitch of the aircraft while the circular FPV would be located above the horizon and to the right or left.  The lateral deviation of the FPV provides a visual indication of drift caused by the crosswind, while the vertical deviation shows the aircraft's attitude or pitch.

 

"If you fly a final APP by hand you will always get situations where the FD is fully centered but the diamond is offsetted a lot to the left or right. This is simply wrong!"

You were probably flying with LNAV/VNAV still engaged so FD were reading the final leg loaded in CDU even though with A/P disconnected. So it is not wrong.  

I did my jumpseat ride few weeks ago in LGA with bad cross wind, FD were centered and FO was chasing diamonds, not FD.  

 

I cant believe that the FD in the real plane is so bad that pilots dont trust it for hand flying. The autopilot flies the airplane based off the flight director...at least my airplane thst I fly does. 

Its darn good at flying an ils to mins and we use it all the time to hand fly.

Just for comparison, I made another approach in iFly 737(FS9).

Not Huge, but I could feel some noticeable difference.

 

Question related :

Also hand flying an Visual approach i believe it is recommended to set FD off/on after AP/off in regards to missed approach and resetting the actually LNAV/VNAV/ILS G/S for it ?

 

Thanks

Michael Moe

13 hours ago, skysurfer said:

You do not fly ILS by FD, you follow glide slope and LLZ pointers (diamonds)

I'm not a pilot but this is nonsense. Just do a search for 737 ILS landing or 737 PFD on youtube and watch how pilots use the FD for theyr manual APPR. You can also search for crosswind landings and see how FD is centered when LLZ pointer is centered but the nose slightly turned into the wind.

13 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I cant believe that the FD in the real plane is so bad that pilots dont trust it for hand flying.

It is not that bad in real life. The PMDG one is not that sensitive / responsive. As you can see from all the videos you will get massive LLZ deviations and only minor to none FD movement.

You must be a real good pilot (simmer) with perfect eyes and yokes to land the PMDG ACFT line (all of them). I don't want to enter a dispute about DEV but the FSL FD is simply excelent to fly. Those bars guide you so smooth and continously towards the RWY, it's a joy to hand-land those birds.

Given the fact that PMDG is another of the big players on the market, I simply wanted them to check / improve the FD responsivness (<- is that even a word?).

 

18 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Given the fact that PMDG is another of the big players on the market, I simply wanted them to check / improve the FD responsivness (<- is that even a word?).

 

I didn't find your question to PMDG on their forum. Could you provide the thread title there?

On 11/10/2019 at 9:26 AM, GEKtheReaper said:

This is the 3rd time I buy this bird (FSX/P3D/P3D update) and the FD is still broken. I realy thought they would have looked into it, unfortunately nothing changed.

Besides the better look and sound, the NGXu is a slight dissapointment at this time to me. I hope the MSFS variant will be better (but I doubt they will fix it).

I did have the PMDG 747 and MD-11 for FSX and since I wasn't exactly impressed I never bought one of their planes again, but I'm really surprised that the FD on the 737 is that bad and this apparently since many years.

I've read about the unrealistic spool up on the 'new' 737 and the FD problems but this demonstration is a nice confirmation.  

24 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

I'm not a pilot but this is nonsense. Just do a search for 737 ILS landing or 737 PFD on youtube and watch how pilots use the FD for theyr manual APPR. You can also search for crosswind landings and see how FD is centered when LLZ pointer is centered but the nose slightly turned into the wind.

It is not that bad in real life. The PMDG one is not that sensitive / responsive. As you can see from all the videos you will get massive LLZ deviations and only minor to none FD movement.

You must be a real good pilot (simmer) with perfect eyes and yokes to land the PMDG ACFT line (all of them). I don't want to enter a dispute about DEV but the FSL FD is simply excelent to fly. Those bars guide you so smooth and continously towards the RWY, it's a joy to hand-land those birds.

Given the fact that PMDG is another of the big players on the market, I simply wanted them to check / improve the FD responsivness (<- is that even a word?).

 

I'm in the same boat as you. The FD in the NGXu feels like a straight port over from the original NGX. 

I've noticed when I dial in a vertical speed or change a pitch modex the FD jumps really quickly and abruptly and then settles in nicely. Or with a small wind chsnge... the FD overreacts. The 747 didnt do this.

Pmdg mentioned quite a bit that they were revamping the FD behavior. I dont see it in the NGXu.

The FSLabs bus does have a much better FD.

I fly in the airlines for my job and the FDs in my airplane handle like the FSlabs...not the pmdg ones.

14 hours ago, skysurfer said:

I did my jumpseat ride few weeks ago in LGA with bad cross wind, FD were centered and FO was chasing diamonds, not FD.  

A good pilot doesn't chase the FD or the diamonds. It's easy to notice when a pilot brainless follows the FD since the approach turns in a so called windshield wiper approach.

You fly the correct LLZ course and apply the necessary heading corrections. The FD makes the task just a bit easier.

That's because it's not a completely "rebuilt" add-on......outside of maybe the model and textures.

It's $99 for the essentially the same code....over and over and over and over again. Literally. LOL

I have a feeling a lot of us paid $99 for a model/texture update (with some *slight* other changes). Also, I'd still like to know why the Old Alaska livery is included. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's because it was already created for the old model; and only required slight changes. Minimal work.

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by Arklight1

18 minutes ago, Arklight1 said:

 

I have a feeling a lot of us paid $99 for a model/texture update (with some *slight* other changes). Also, I'd still like to know why the Old Alaska livery is included. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's because it was already created for the old model; and only required slight changes. Minimal work.

I 100% agree with you ! And other developers give those updates for free.. like FSL.. 

 

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by Alexandre6463

37 minutes ago, Arklight1 said:

That's because it's not a completely "rebuilt" add-on......outside of maybe the model and textures.

It's $99 for the essentially the same code....over and over and over and over again. Literally. LOL

I have a feeling a lot of us paid $99 for a model/texture update (with some *slight* other changes). Also, I'd still like to know why the Old Alaska livery is included. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's because it was already created for the old model; and only required slight changes. Minimal work.

Completely nonsense. Looks like you didn't even read the release info:

 

Quote

PMDG 737NGXu is a ground-up rebuild of our highly acclaimed, award winning NGX simulation that was released more than eight years ago in 2011. Rebuilt to capitalize on the Prepar3D v4.4 (and later) platform, NGXu has been rewritten, rebuilt and retooled to include not only changes in simulation technology since 2011, but changes in the 737 fleet that have been added since we released our NGX software all those years ago.

PMDG 737Xu offers greatly improved systems simulation, new features, added technology and tons of new capability to provide the ultimate 737 simulation experience.

• All new system simulation, utilizing the latest PMDG system simulation engine.
• Enhanced flight physics.
• Addition of rigid body physics affecting flex/vibration propagation to wing and tail surfaces.
• Improved flight control systems.
• Electronic Flight Bag with Navigraph Integration.
• High resolution cockpit displays
• New equipment options for cockpit instrumentation, fuel system changes and more.
• Changes to 737 options packages reflecting real world changes since NGX was first offered in 2011.
• Expanded failures simulation to cover nearly all QRH scenarios.
• PMDG Global Flight Operations compatibility (when PMDG GFO is made live in late 2019!)
• Native PMDG datalink simulation for offline flying (similar to 777 and 747)
• Driveable TPX200s pushback tug with user controlled steering and speed.
• Base Package includes 737-800, 737-900 and 737-900ER models with standard wing, blended winglet and split scimitar winglet options where offered on the actual airframe.
• All new, high definition sound suite recorded on a fully instrumented test airplane.
• Sounds balanced and layered using advanced studio technologies in order to provide the most lifelike representation possible of the soundscape on a 737 airliner.
• Enhanced PMDG Sound Engine for immersive audio experience on the flight deck.
• New PMDG Operations Center 2.0
• Entirely New virtual cockpit built just for Prepar3D with hundreds of new details including high resolution textures and PBR support.
• Dynamic lighting throughout, including panel floods, chart lights, map lights, CB panel illumination, Grimes lights and dome lights.
• Many new equipment options reflecting changes to the global 737 fleet.
• Optional auxiliary fuel tanks/panel. (for use in 900ER and subsequent BBJ/BBJ2 offerings)
• Automatic eyepoint adjustment for HGS and non HGS views (with the ability to control and disable from FMS)
• New LED external lighting options for all fleet types., including the implementation of pulse lighting.
• Entirely new exterior models with more details and high resolution 4096x4096 textures.
• PBR enabled out of the box, each surface has accurate reflective properties, especially on bare metal surfaces where rivets have a different reflective property compared to a polished surface.
• Higher resolution normal maps, see rivets and panel lines in rich detail.
• Smooth animated flight controls and landing gear operation.
• Boeing Sky Interior cabin model with cool blue LED lighting.
• Accurate flight dynamics and performance data for each model type including Blended and Split Scimitar winglet.
• 737-800 and 900 models with different wingtip options including standard wingtip, blended and split scimitar winglets, including the 737-900ER model.
• Ground Service vehicle fleet to support the 737 during turnarounds at airports all around the world.
• Real time refueling based on accurate Boeing data.
• Global fuel density model as introduced with the 747.Fuel densities will closely match actual fuel density as reported globally by world operators.
• Fluid flow simulation for hydraulic, pneumatic and fuel systems.

...and much much more!

 

2 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

Completely nonsense. Looks like you didn't even read the release info:

 

 

 

Half the release notes you posted are Model/External changes or aspects that would fall under the "not worth $100 category" for a lot of folks. Feel free to point out all the ways you feel the NGXu is a $100 upgrade over the NGX. I'll wait. 

 

Btw, I went ahead and took the liberty of highlighting the areas that would fall under External/Model upgrade. I must also mention, that bullet points 15-17 discuss the same thing (Sounds).

• All new system simulation, utilizing the latest PMDG system simulation engine.
• Enhanced flight physics.
• Addition of rigid body physics affecting flex/vibration propagation to wing and tail surfaces. (External)
• Improved flight control systems.
• Electronic Flight Bag with Navigraph Integration.
• High resolution cockpit displays (were the ones before terrible?...honest question as I don't remember)
• New equipment options for cockpit instrumentation, fuel system changes and more.
• Changes to 737 options packages reflecting real world changes since NGX was first offered in 2011. (External/extra)
• Expanded failures simulation to cover nearly all QRH scenarios. 
• PMDG Global Flight Operations compatibility (when PMDG GFO is made live in late 2019!) (not even out yet)
• Native PMDG datalink simulation for offline flying (similar to 777 and 747)
• Driveable TPX200s pushback tug with user controlled steering and speed. (External)
• Base Package includes 737-800, 737-900 and 737-900ER models with standard wing, blended winglet and split scimitar winglet options where offered on the actual airframe. (External)
• All new, high definition sound suite recorded on a fully instrumented test airplane. 
• Sounds balanced and layered using advanced studio technologies in order to provide the most lifelike representation possible of the soundscape on a 737 airliner.
• Enhanced PMDG Sound Engine for immersive audio experience on the flight deck.
• New PMDG Operations Center 2.0
• Entirely New virtual cockpit built just for Prepar3D with hundreds of new details including high resolution textures and PBR support. (External)
• Dynamic lighting throughout, including panel floods, chart lights, map lights, CB panel illumination, Grimes lights and dome lights.(External)
• Many new equipment options reflecting changes to the global 737 fleet.(External)
• Optional auxiliary fuel tanks/panel. (for use in 900ER and subsequent BBJ/BBJ2 offerings)
• Automatic eyepoint adjustment for HGS and non HGS views (with the ability to control and disable from FMS)
• New LED external lighting options for all fleet types., including the implementation of pulse lighting. (External)
• Entirely new exterior models with more details and high resolution 4096x4096 textures. (External)
• PBR enabled out of the box, each surface has accurate reflective properties, especially on bare metal surfaces where rivets have a different reflective property compared to a polished surface. (External)
• Higher resolution normal maps, see rivets and panel lines in rich detail.(External)
• Smooth animated flight controls and landing gear operation. (External)
• Boeing Sky Interior cabin model with cool blue LED lighting. (External)
• Accurate flight dynamics and performance data for each model type including Blended and Split Scimitar winglet.
• 737-800 and 900 models with different wingtip options including standard wingtip, blended and split scimitar winglets, including the 737-900ER model. (External and already explained above)
• Ground Service vehicle fleet to support the 737 during turnarounds at airports all around the world. (External)
• Real time refueling based on accurate Boeing data.
• Global fuel density model as introduced with the 747.Fuel densities will closely match actual fuel density as reported globally by world operators.
• Fluid flow simulation for hydraulic, pneumatic and fuel systems.

 

 

I'll pose another question.................

if Product A is amazing and does all this and that.....what exactly is Product B that warrants a full price over Product A? What did I just buy in Product A, ie, how is product B really innovating/really pushing the needle forward vs Product A? If you are going to charge full price, it needs to be worth it. Can anybody here honestly say that after every new PMDG 737 they bought they felt like they were getting a new product that justifies a 100% upgrade cost?

 

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by Arklight1