Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Cruachan

Spare a thought

Recommended Posts

Hi,

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

The situation is summed up well by this excellent post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/564138-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-a-cautionary-note/?do=findComment&comment=4111437

Regards,

Mike

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 4

My rig: ASUS ROG Rampage V Extreme, i7-5960X (Dynamic OC 4.6 GHz - all cores, HT=ON, AM=21845), Corsair Hydro Series H110i GT Cooler with 2xNoctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm fans, G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4 3000, ASUS GTX 1080Ti ROG STRIX 11GB, GDDR5X (Driver versions: 441.66 (Win7), 460.79 (Win10)), Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD x4, Samsung 970 EVO 2TB V-NAND M.2, LG BH16NS40 16x SATA Internal BDRW, EVGA 1200 P2 Watt PSU, Cooler Master HAF X, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q (G-Sync) monitor at 120Hz. Oculus Rift. Dual Boot: Windows 10 Pro 64bit (2004) / Prepar3D v5.1.12.26829, Windows 7 Pro 64bit / Prepar3D v4.5.12.30293.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

Most of us already have the must have add-ons for FSX/P3D v4 and I'm sure most users will take advantage of the up-coming sales. There's no need to worry about devs. If they create a wanted add-on and have an excellent reputation, most us will buy and continue to support their hard work. They will not be forgotten,certainly not by me.

Don't let the poor attitude of some affect your shrewd judgement.

Jose

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ask me, I have been going on buying the Prepar3d addons I want after the announcement, and quite a number. However, I do see this less as a caritative engagement for our developers than just a means to keep me interested. I'll certainly use Prepar3d for more than a year from now, so I find it makes sense.

Honestly, I have different feelings against our developers. There are some who develop more as a matter of love than gearing towards financial success. I would name here LLC Creations,. Simaddons, UK2000, France VFR, and the like.

There are others, though, whom I find - honestly - arrogant, notably in their behavior in their forums. I won't name anyone here, but it's those closing unwanted, crital topics, notably crtical towards their products, excluding critical users from access, and such. I will not name anyone here. That's their good right to do with their forums what pleases them, but it's our good right to judge them for this.

BTW, why do we need another thread on this topic?

Kind regards, Michael

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5

MSFS, P3D Professional 5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

Wait... So I've spent at least $2,000 on P3D addons over the last few years and now you expect me to continue spending money on a sim I won't be flying in 6 months?

Instead of pandering to the insecurities of 3rd party P3D developers by saying "don't worry, here's some more money, P3D is not dying", I'd rather make my opinion very clear.

My opinion is this... For me P3D is DEAD!  I will not spend another cent on P3D add-ons. Instead, if 3rd party developers want my money they should reposition themselves for FS2020, just like PMDG is doing.  3rd party developers should not kid themselves that they will still have a thriving P3D market.  As soon as FS2020 is released I think P3D sales will drop to just 5% of past levels.  Those developers who stick their heads in the sand will surely go under. 

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

 

  • Like 12
  • Upvote 2

Matthew S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

Hi,

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

The situation is summed up well by this excellent post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/564138-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-a-cautionary-note/?do=findComment&comment=4111437

Regards,

Mike

 

We have been supporting them since at least FSX with our money, it's not like they are doing a charity. That is 13 years of supporting them by the way.

Besides, it's not the end of the world. Asobo have been more than welcoming towards them, some developers visited them in their studios, we know there is a SDK coming, PMDG already announced their product (at least the 737) will be coming for this new sim too.
Sure, others have to adapt if the stock sim offers what they used to sell, but this will also show who is capable of adapting and who isn't. Some, even during these 13 years, managed to improve their products and integrate new technology. Others instead tried to make the most bucks by offering similar products.

I think about REX and HiFi. Those are the ones most hurt here i think. But then again, they have been selling ultra HD 2d clouds for a really long time. Not one time (as far as we know) they tried to implement something newer like noise generated clouds (which is what, unsurprisingly, the new MSFS ended up having). Others like Orbx can (i hope) shift their attention towards those imperfections that will likely still be in the scenery (for example by going from doing regional sceneries to more airports, landmarks and things like that). We'll have to see.

Overall however, the developers i considered worth have been already supported with my approval and my wallet too. This is a fresh start, those who can will find their niche to offer their products on the new platform. Those who cannot will stick to their P3D sales or shift their attention elsewhere. 

  • Like 7
  • Upvote 3

Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the latest FSElite interview video with Asoba it was mentioned that the existing "Gamer Pass" subscription would seen millions of new users trying out FS2020.  Surely the market for add-ons in FS2020 will be many times larger than ever existed for P3D.

Yes, REX and HiFi seem in a bad position, but developers of add-on aircraft and airports must be very happy about FS2020!

Orbx's global and regional products seem pointless now and IMHO they should focus on airports exclusively.

Maybe once the dust settles and the capabilities of the SDK become apparent we will see new types of products not possible before in P3D. How about trains and boats?  Maybe this is possible via the SDK too?

Fly into Athens, do a little sailing around the Greek Isles... ha-ha.

Frankly, the FS2020 world seems too good to be restricted to aircraft alone!

Edited by MatthewS
  • Like 2

Matthew S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

 who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim.

Wait... what? 

You are forgetting a sim is for consumers, not for developers. They are as free to create content as users are to buy it, and that’s fine.

But aggressive marketing because MS and ASOBO are showing what consumers want? Dude, I think you are a little bit lost here. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Surely the market for add-ons in FS2020 will be many times larger than ever existed for P3D.

I'm not so sure about that. The people who will play MSFS through the Game Pass are gamers in the first place and they generally hate the words "DLC", "Add-ons" and etc (myself included). Just look at what Battlefield and Call of Duty are doing: no more season pass and free content updates (going from maps, to game modes and weapons). So, I'm not really sure if those people will buy add-ons for better quality airports or more detailed airplanes.


MSFS Alpha Tester, please don't ask me any questions regarding the alpha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, simtom said:

I'm not so sure about that. The people who will play MSFS through the Game Pass are gamers in the first place and they generally hate the words "DLC", "Add-ons" and etc (myself included). Just look at what Battlefield and Call of Duty are doing: no more season pass and free content updates (going from maps, to game modes and weapons). So, I'm not really sure if those people will buy add-ons for better quality airports or more detailed airplanes.

You are wrong. First of all there are no gamers and simmers. I use both. There is no issue in using both. We are all sitting in a chair in front of a screen enjoying different experiences, none of them real.

DLCs are not existing just in the flight simulator place 🙂 Even on Battlefield there are Expansions, there are micro transactions, on other games like Euro Truck Sim (which is not much of a sim anyway compared to our plane ones) there are maps DLCs, on Cities Skylines there are addons. I could go on, the point being DLCs have always been around for both those playing with a joystick and a plane flying in the sky and for those using a mouse and keyboard and pew pewing enemies

Edited by france89
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, france89 said:

You are wrong. First of all there are no gamers and simmers. I use both. There is no issue in using both. We are all sitting in a chair in front of a screen enjoying different experiences, none of them real.

DLCs are not existing just in the flight simulator place 🙂 Even on Battlefield there are Expansions, there are micro transactions, on other games like Euro Truck Sim (which is not much of a sim anyway compared to our plane ones) there are maps DLCs, on Cities Skylines there are addons. I could go on, the point being DLCs have always been around for both those playing with a joystick and a plane flying in the sky and for those using a mouse and keyboard and pew pewing enemies

I meant ‘gamers’ more in the sense of people who normally don’t play simulators.

I do know that DLC’s exist outside of flight simulation. And expansions are no longer a thing in Battlefield, it’s all free now.

Micro transactions is the better word, those things are hated right now.

Well, the games you give as example are more or less simulation games, where it is considered ‘normal’ to buy add-ons (don’t forget that a game like Skylines has a ton of free mods). 
 

So what I meant is that the regular Battlefield player won’t really buy add-ons for a simulation game. But it’s all speculation as of now 🙂


MSFS Alpha Tester, please don't ask me any questions regarding the alpha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL are you word not allowed kidding me?

Feel bad for the “beleaguered” developers who may not be able to develop for a base sim that does everything better than they can?

Step it up, or fall behind.  Easy as that.  I’m sure as hell not spending another penny on P3D or XP11 till this is out.  Once it is, we can see what kind of aftermarket support it may or may not develop

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't share pity for products which were duly paid for. Flight sim is the number one most expensive program in terms of add-ons. It should be MS/Asobo's goal to put them out of business. Especially Orbx.

Edited by Greazer
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did support them for past 10 years. Its not like they were giving out free stuff. Still going to support them if they do something out of the box for FS2020. Absolutely NOT going to give them a penny if they keep clinging on to p3d or xp thinking they can milk some more money from that market.

Honestly we dont need these sort of threads here.

Edited by Baber20
  • Upvote 2

Baber

 

My Youtube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/HDOnlive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pmb said:

BTW, why do we need another thread on this topic?

Hi Michael,

The short answer is we don’t. I was curious as to what reaction there would be in the forum dedicated to the sim that’s persuading some users to throw existing 3rd Party Development under a bus. I guess, from the uncompromising tone expressed by several responders to date, I have my answer. It’s disappointing, but having dared to enter the lion’s den I should not be surprised.

Regards,

Mike

  • Like 1

My rig: ASUS ROG Rampage V Extreme, i7-5960X (Dynamic OC 4.6 GHz - all cores, HT=ON, AM=21845), Corsair Hydro Series H110i GT Cooler with 2xNoctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm fans, G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4 3000, ASUS GTX 1080Ti ROG STRIX 11GB, GDDR5X (Driver versions: 441.66 (Win7), 460.79 (Win10)), Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD x4, Samsung 970 EVO 2TB V-NAND M.2, LG BH16NS40 16x SATA Internal BDRW, EVGA 1200 P2 Watt PSU, Cooler Master HAF X, ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q (G-Sync) monitor at 120Hz. Oculus Rift. Dual Boot: Windows 10 Pro 64bit (2004) / Prepar3D v5.1.12.26829, Windows 7 Pro 64bit / Prepar3D v4.5.12.30293.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I dont care at all for them. They sold me overpriced products. It was a business nothing else.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Lukas Dalton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    45%
    $11,435.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...