16 hours ago, Reader said:

I think you have completely missed the point of my reply, which was tongue in cheek.

You cannot also add in the cost of all the expansion packs for the 757, as you did and then state that because it then costs 185 dollars, it must be PMDG, when in fact the base pack is 75.70 and therefore cheaper than any of the recent PMDG products.

You seem to have selective reading and quoting. I stated that I would only want the CS with an F but you ofc  you mist all that out with you selective quote to suit your needs.

Also left out that you stated the CS was $124 cheaper but again that was not a like for like as was it, the base if you want real like for like is $139 for a PMDG 747 and I also pointed out the 777 is only $90. I also explained the costing with the F as I had made that clear that's what I would be after.

So quote me as much as you like but don't just repeat your twisting break down. 

Try and follow this.

Like for like.............to do that you need to add RR and a F. That's how I get my figures.

PMDG 777 with GE,RR engines and a F $90, Base pack (As pointed out no RR, so just F, CS with just F $125)

PMDG 747 with GE,RR engines and a F $139 Base pack

CS with RR and F to make it like for like with a base pack PMDG 747, price $155.

CS with an F to make it like for like with a base pack PMDG 777, price $125.

The CS base aircraft comes with no RR or F's so is not comparable on its own with the PMDG offering.

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Nyxx

If I was going to be picky.......the PMDG 777 pack includes GE engines only

1 minute ago, Christopher Low said:

If I was going to be picky.......the PMDG 777 pack includes GE engines only

Your right Christopher but even so....

I won't edit it out as it does not change the point. Even that like for like is

PMDG 777 with GE and a F $90, Base pack CS with just the F $125

@Nyxx fair enough. You are right and I am wrong. I am so sorry.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Reader

I lot of people IRL can't bring themselves to say "sorry" to save their lifes. When IRL someone says sorry that's the end of the matter, When someone says it on a forum in a way it has more weight as it's even easier to say nothing.

Top man Reader, thank you and I respect you very much for doing so. Time to move on.

15 hours ago, micstatic said:

The reason for the obsession as you call it is that the 747 is iconic and the 767 isn't.  People who know nothing about aviation can recognize a 747.  Your criteria for "to make or not" is how many are in service.  But there are many people who could care less about that.  Delta does have plans to retire the 757.  A combination of A321/B739.  Although they haven't announced a date of when they will be gone as many still have a good life left.  We all love the 757, but there were only 1000 produced.  How many 757's are being used on missions that the 739 can't handle.  Then take that number and how many of those can't be flown by an A321lr.  Times have changed since they were in service.  Please don't think I'm ripping on the plane.  I'm not.  I love it.  Boeing has made ALOT of mistakes.  Not replacing the 757 is hardly one of them.  Just my opinion.  

Granted, the 747 is indeed an iconic plane, so in that regard you are right.

I'm basing my opinion on what would be more practical in terms of what's actually flying, what's more popular, and what is likely to sell better.  There are many posts here on AVSIM from folks begging for a 767.  I'm willing to bet that PMDG would have made more revenue by developing a 767-300 and 300F, but of course I could be wrong.

Boeing is actually considering a new Middle of the Market aircraft, which would be a replacement for the 757, as there is demand for it.  They may be too late, however, as Airbus made a smart move in developing the A321 Neo and XLR.

Dave

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Granted, the 747 is indeed an iconic plane, so in that regard you are right.

I'm basing my opinion on what would be more practical in terms of what's actually flying, what's more popular, and what is likely to sell better.  There are many posts here on AVSIM from folks begging for a 767.  I'm willing to bet that PMDG would have made more revenue by developing a 767-300 and 300F, but of course I could be wrong.

Boeing is actually considering a new Middle of the Market aircraft, which would be a replacement for the 757, as there is demand for it.  They may be too late, however, as Airbus made a smart move in developing the A321 Neo and XLR.

Dave

Two different opinions but I don't see any way where more people would buy a 767 than a 747.  Your 2nd paragraph is quite timely.  Yesterday boeing just shelved the new middle market aircraft and requested engineers go back to the drawing board.  It's widely believed that the next design will be more in the 737 size class than the 767 class.  Agree with you on Airbus being smart to capture the space.  I think boeing has realized they lost this battle and will move on to another space.  

22 hours ago, sddjd said:

It's ironic to me that there is an argument about numbers in service/age of airframe. The 77LR/F has somewhere just over 200 in service, combined yet no one questions the validity of the PMDG offering's existence (I'm a fan). Meanwhile the 763 fleet worldwide currently is in the 6-700 mark, with new frames being manufactured (albeit at 2-3 per month). 

Regardless, a developer must have both the passion for the work (massive) and at least expect a market to justify their efforts. While we fans of the 76x see it as a given, the lack of an uptake on such a project may sadly indicate otherwise....

Oh wow I didn't even realize Boeing still had the line going for the 763. I feel like the 757/67 has left to much of a legacy to simply be ignored in the sim world. One can only hope that a developer decides to take on this project someday.

6 hours ago, micstatic said:

Two different opinions but I don't see any way where more people would buy a 767 than a 747.  Your 2nd paragraph is quite timely.  Yesterday boeing just shelved the new middle market aircraft and requested engineers go back to the drawing board.  It's widely believed that the next design will be more in the 737 size class than the 767 class.  Agree with you on Airbus being smart to capture the space.  I think boeing has realized they lost this battle and will move on to another space.  

Oh, that's interesting that Boeing has abandoned the middle market plane.  I think the Airbus A321, and the 737-900ER as you mentioned, had something to do with that.

I hope that Boeing develops a revolutionary B737/A320 replacement.  They can redeem themselves if they focus on quality and safety.  It had better be good, though.

Dave

 

@sho69607, I'm also amazed we haven't seen a good B767 simulation for P3Dv4.  PMDG agreed with Level-D not to develop one, but Level-D hasn't either.  On another posting I suggested PMDG should strongly consider teaming up with Level-D to develop a B767, even if Level-D's contribution is minimal.  But, it's more likely that another developer would approach Level-D for said teaming, like Milviz.  Would love to see Milviz enter into that market.  They could include the USAF's KC-46, which is based on the B767 platform.  Some will say that it would take Milviz forever (measured in KA350i years), but it would still be less time than Level-D's.  

32 minutes ago, SAX702 said:

@sho69607, I'm also amazed we haven't seen a good B767 simulation for P3Dv4.  PMDG agreed with Level-D not to develop one, but Level-D hasn't either.  On another posting I suggested PMDG should strongly consider teaming up with Level-D to develop a B767, even if Level-D's contribution is minimal.  But, it's more likely that another developer would approach Level-D for said teaming, like Milviz.  Would love to see Milviz enter into that market.  They could include the USAF's KC-46, which is based on the B767 platform.  Some will say that it would take Milviz forever (measured in KA350i years), but it would still be less time than Level-D's.  

Level D's 767 came out in 2004 so I think it is safe to say they aren't really in it in anymore. They have released small updates here and there, but I don't think PMDG would be stepping on their toes by developing a new version of an addon that came out 15 years ago. Then again, I don't know what the terms of their agreement are either.

18 hours ago, Nyxx said:

PMDG 777 with GE and a F $90, Base pack CS with just the F $125

The CS 757 freighter addon includes both PW and RR engines.  Their separate RR add-on is for the pax version only.

An alternative comparison:

PMDG 777 with GE and freighter on sale: $90.  CS 757 with freighter (including PW and RR engines) on sale: $55.  CS has those 25-eurogazinks-for-everything-in-the-store sales a few times a year.  PMDG almost never discounts theirs...just the one on their 22nd anniversary I think?

Anyway, no matter how one feels about the relative differences in add-on quality, the comparison doesn't carry a lot of significance, as the narrow body 757F freighter is used IRL in lots of places the 777F can't go, if for no other reason than because the trip-seven is just too big.  Maybe PMDG will produce a 737-800BCF extension for the 737NGXu.  Even though it's not a mainstream cargo airframe just yet, I think Boeing is now up to around 125 orders for the 738BCF.

 

The Level-D Sim 767 was one of my favorite planes in FS9. If I remember correctly, there's was some buzz at the time in regards to them making a 757. That never happened. I suspect that that buzz led other developers to bow out of the 757 development market with the exception of Captain Sim. The reviews regarding the CS 757 were always mixed at best, with many reviewers praising the visuals but noting flaws with the systems modelig. In addition, the CS planes always heavily taxed frame rates. In FS9 I used to fly their 707, which I could never get to work properly.

So, then you're left with the QW 757, which, as I've said upthread, seems to be a good bargain at the price they are now charging for it.

All in all, Level-D Sim as a company that produces high quality addons doesn't seem to be a serious contender anymore.

Similarly, if I remember correctly, PMDG once planned to release a Boeing BizJet - that never happened, either. If you wanted to fly a Boeing BizJet, you had to buy it from "the company whose name we cannot mention here". Eventually, ifly released a BoeingBizJet.

Announcing a product and then either not delivering or delivering it 10-15 years later is the bane of flight simming.

 

Years ago I have flown the CS 757 a lot. After having edited the airfield the VNAV worked good enough.

CS makes the most realistic ac regarding the look ..

2014 :

 

I’m still waiting to see the 80% completed Level-D 757 that they showed at FSCon over two years ago. What a joke.