Well done Alan, the vid was to show as the title weather and clouds, now we have a topic on ATC.

 

11 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

No it's not ... I'd suggest the "vaguely interested" are just that, "vaguely interested" ... which is fine to each his or her own.  But don't accuse flight simming as being "inherently boring".  Just perhaps the "vaguely interested" person is the boring one that lacks enthusiasm, imagination, and the ability to want to learn about all the aspects of flight?

Perhaps it's the 3D shooter gamer that is moribund (like that word BTW)?  I mean do you want to compare what a 3D shooter/gamer learns vs. a simmer?  And yes I realize that means it's judged by what one learns and uses their brain for ... but you did say "moribund".

Cheers, Rob.

I'm not accusing Flight simming of being boring, I'm stating it outright. It's not meant to be an insult, it's just a statement of fact.  This thing we all do and love is not exciting in any traditional sense.  There is nothing about 7 hours of cruise in a long haul jetliner that is going to cause anyone to put down their copy of DOOM or whatever to join in the visceral experience of daily aviation ops.  Which is why we need to sell the things that keep us coming back time and again to the newer generations.  which is immersion, interest in the subject matter, being able to explore a virtual earth, and also the peacefulness that comes from finally breaking free from the noise of the constantly stimulated environment we live in.  Which is why my point stands, we're going to have a lot of people come and ooh and aah over the graphics who are going to leave,  but we will also have people arrive, who might not be aware that they are going to love flight simming, who have to be engaged enough to overcome the nature of the hobby.  making fun of them because they don't know proper procedures isn't going to get it done.  Look at Euro/American Truck Simulator.  It would be hard to explain why that is a huge hit, but it is.  This has a lot of the same qualities.

23 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Flight simming IS inherently boring, but there's something oddly engaging about it.  Same with sailing.  A "vaguely interested" person may discover this.  And if they don't, nothing is lost.

Hook

Exactly this, have you ever played euro truck driver 2, its a about the same thing..but weirdly compelling/mesmerizing.

with aircraft is just magnitudes better.   and thats why lots agmers will tryout the game but wont last.

a bit too much nitpicking in the forums here, but ala.

36 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

10 million game pass subscribers will not sign up to MSFS they don`t have to they will see it for free when it`s released on the game console, and if you take steam as an example gamers will take a look but most will not stay they tend to play something and move on to the next big title.

I suspect the total sales of FSX is in the millions but the retention rate is low. 

 

I didn't say 10 million will sign up for MSFS. Just trying to convey the overall scale. Yes, most will not stay and the bellyaching from the galaxy brains of the flight sim community makes it that much harder. Let the newbies figure it out in relative peace.

18 minutes ago, wim123 said:

Exactly this, have you ever played euro truck driver 2, its a about the same thing..but weirdly compelling/mesmerizing.

I haven't played any of the trucking simulators, but I've thought about it.  I've played train simulators (I prefer steam trains).  I've played sailing simulators (I like square riggers).  

And I've played flight simulators.  Over the years I've used less and less automation, and the flights have become more and more interesting.  Flying a DC-3 to the limits of its endurance from Adak to Midway, hand flying all the way with no GPS or other map cheats, only a vague idea of winds aloft, having to dodge weather occasionally and hitting the island 10 hours after departure well within VOR range, it's more exciting than it sounds.  Just planning that flight was something of an adventure.  Flying the A2A Connie or Stratocruiser 8 hours from San Francisco to Hawaii under the same conditions with the addition of the possibility of engine failure or other emergency is even more exciting. 🙂 That flight requires calculating a great circle route.

In MSFS it's the Cessna 152 to and from Barbados, but that was a piece of cake compared to the above. 😄 

Hook

GG Guys.

Really!

On topic? 😄  I'm not a fan of the clouds, but they're adequate.  I'd been flying with Active Sky Cloud Art in P3D.

Hook

5 hours ago, Chock said:

 

 

5 hours ago, Chock said:

nobody is born knowing how to do that, we all had to learn, and in fact I hope lots of people do want to learn, and there's nobody more than me who would encourage them to do so too. Not forgetting too, that it would be incredibly snobbish and hugely obnoxious of anyone who happens to be able to fly an aeroplane to get snooty about other people's efforts to have a try at it.

I'm glad you said that, because this has been running through my mind every day, reading these forums. The snobbish comments from people who'd have you believe they were literally born to fly.

I'm a so-called "noob". I'll be using this sim with all assists on, to begin with, and doubtlessly stalling and crashing many times as I try turning these aids off one by one. Sometimes - or much of the time - I might just want to cruise along and enjoy the sights. I hope I will get good at it in full sim mode, but it doesn't really matter if I don't. I won't be spoiling the real pilots' enjoyment using this software in my own way, or when I'm making many errors while learning and practising in full sim mode.

Re all the testers who haven't played a sim before, this is in some way invaluable to the development team. The team want - no, they need - to have more people who aren't familiar with flying an airplane or using a simulator to test this. The simulator mechanics are modified from the existing code for FSX. They have a legacy of tests done via previous versions to be confident that that essentially works. But this is clearly aimed at newcomers, too, so they need to know how those people (like me) experience it, learn from it. Are the tutorials clear and intuitive? Do the various levels of assists work as they should? Etc. They need feedback from all types and experience levels.

 

 

2 minutes ago, March Hare said:

 

I'm glad you said that, because this has been running through my mind every day, reading these forums. The snobbish comments from people who'd have you believe they were literally born to fly.

I'm a so-called "noob". I'll be using this sim with all assists on, to begin with, and doubtlessly stalling and crashing many times as I try turning these aids off one by one. Sometimes - or much of the time - I might just want to cruise along and enjoy the sights. I hope I will get good at it in full sim mode, but it doesn't really matter if I don't. I won't be spoiling the real pilots' enjoyment using this software in my own way, or when I'm making many errors while learning and practising in full sim mode.

Re all the testers who haven't played a sim before, this is in some way invaluable to the development team. The team want - no, they need - to have more people who aren't familiar with flying an airplane or using a simulator to test this. The simulator mechanics are modified from the existing code for FSX. They have a legacy of tests done via previous versions to be confident that that essentially works. But this is clearly aimed at newcomers, too, so they need to know how those people (like me) experience it, learn from it. Are the tutorials clear and intuitive? Do the various levels of assists work as they should? Etc. They need feedback from all types and experience levels.

 

 

If it makes you feel better, I have been flight simming for 2+ decades and just a few minutes ago I ate it in a 737 in X-plane 11 in VR while trying to land.

20 hours ago, BerndB said:

"the lack of blame is raise enough"

The translation should rather be: "Silence is praise enough."

18 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Never in my 30 years of flight sim'ing have I had the misfortune of reading so many negative things. This sim is the start of a new era and all you read is (not allowed) about "i see a guy with a 2080Ti is not holding 60 FPS with all max setting over NY in 4K..it's terrible!, and now the clouds look bad, Really. Sick to death of the endless nick picking and 90% of it is from people that are not even Alpha/beta testers. 

This forum is grim reading when people should be overjoyed at this new start in flight sim'ing. 

I have not flown a GA in years but will enjoy and look forward to really exploring the "real" world in a GA for the first time within this sim.  Happy to wait 6 month before the big airliners hopefully start coming out.  Will carry on using and enjoying P3Dv5 for my loved airlines, but I have a terrible feeling after doing GA flights the world within v5 is going to look very dated and grim.

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism but OMG the balance to that is...let's just say is lacking.....to say the least.

I can't wait to begin my new journey of discovery and after watching a video of a GA flying over venice I ask what on earth do you want? It's the "start" and you should be over the moon its happening.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for posting this! Completely agree.

This forum is suddenly overwhelmed with new threads about unwarranted and completely misinformed criticism. I don't understand where all this is coming from?! Most threads in here are about too many grass straws being rendered, clouds are too vaporious, flight models are incorrect, clouds look like 'volcano ash', lightning looks to cartoonish, trees are too big/small, buildings are too colorless etc etc... It's getting sickening to read. Where is all this coming from?! Most of all sources of criticism, is based of half information from compressed YouTube videos and images. I don't understand. Most have been sighing for this kind of simulation for decades and yet - on the brink of it being released, people are nothing but a group of negative, fault-finding nitpickers who doesn't even have the full information to make qualified assessments. I mean, how can you tell the physics are wrong, if you don't know the setup that is being presented?! What if the realism settings are set to 'simple' or they're using/testing out the 'legacy flight dynamics'? 

I very much look forward to this new sim! I have high hopes as - so far as I can tell - this sim addresses many (if not most) of the grievances I've had with our existing sims. It looks absolutely amazing, to be honest. Of course, people are more than welcome to ask informed questions and wonder about aspects of the sim. But this kind of rant and constant flailing that's predominant, is just sad and is - to be honest - taking the fun out of this. 

Is there a way to hide an entire thread?

(Sorry for the rant)

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

Flight simming IS inherently boring, but there's something oddly engaging about it. 

As most human activities, it gets boring if it becomes repetitive. Like your job. I loved mine because I had to change my country of residence every 3 to 5 years. Even this perpetual change was tedious at the end. But after 6 years of retirement, I wish I could move again 😏. Same with the sim, sometimes you need to get off the hook but you are drawn back to it if you are really addicted.

If simming was only about programming a route and let the aircraft fly for hours at FL350 with only cirrus to admire, I would be bored pretty fast. That is a pitfall awaiting most the newcomers fascinated by the 320 or 747. 

Now I don’t think that a flight in the mountains to the difficult approach of a rough airfield is inherently boring. Neither to manage a big prop at the end of a big engine in 6 tons of metal. You get as tense as  you can be on a chair before a screen.* 

Don’t make me wrong.  I do not demean  airline flying. Some of YT videos like Blackbox711’s show that it could have a lot of depth and require to be involved too. Something which rarely transpires from forum posts.
 

Learning something complex is fun. I may try airliners in FS20. This perpetual forum rambling opposing being too serious or having fun doesn’t make sense to me. 

Let me a bit paradoxical in conclusion. I love RPG, Dragon Age, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, etc. but in a way killing dragons or supermuties gets more repetitive than a sim if you know /want to explore the later potential. 

* maybe somebody should come with an addon giving you a electric shock in the behind when you crash ?

Edited August 1, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

18 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Never in my 30 years of flight sim'ing have I had the misfortune of reading so many negative things. This sim is the start of a new era and all you read is (not allowed) about "i see a guy with a 2080Ti is not holding 60 FPS with all max setting over NY in 4K..it's terrible!, and now the clouds look bad, Really. Sick to death of the endless nick picking and 90% of it is from people that are not even Alpha/beta testers. 

This forum is grim reading when people should be overjoyed at this new start in flight sim'ing. 

I have not flown a GA in years but will enjoy and look forward to really exploring the "real" world in a GA for the first time within this sim.  Happy to wait 6 month before the big airliners hopefully start coming out.  Will carry on using and enjoying P3Dv5 for my loved airlines, but I have a terrible feeling after doing GA flights the world within v5 is going to look very dated and grim.

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism but OMG the balance to that is...let's just say is lacking.....to say the least.

I can't wait to begin my new journey of discovery and after watching a video of a GA flying over venice I ask what on earth do you want? It's the "start" and you should be over the moon its happening.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The entire world is in admiration of what Microsoft and Asobo have achieved here. We’re starting to get the attention of serious FPS crowds and other peeps who previously would never bat an eye at such titles, just to show a scale of the interest and buzz MSFS has generated. 

We need to cut the developers some slack, appreciate what they’ve done for the hobby and offer constructive criticism to allow the sim to slowly grow to its maximum potential. 

Offering armchair criticism doesn’t help anybody and only sours the community and development plans. 

43 minutes ago, travelabroad said:

 

This forum is suddenly overwhelmed with new threads about unwarranted and completely misinformed

Is there a way to hide an entire thread?

(Sorry for the rant)

hey TA

I will try to answer you. Do not take it badly as it is meant as a friendly chat.

Now opening fire 🤣.

A lot of us are very much looking forward to FS20, and I would say nobody more than those who have been in this hobby forever. Boomers. Elitists. Gamekeepers. Whatever you call them. I am glad that MS came back to it, I am proud they chose a French outfit , I am very impressed by most of what I’ve seen so far. 

But I will not surrender my freedom to underline what I do not like and frankly speaking I am too old to sing kumbaya holding hands around the fire. Never liked it anyway even when younger. 

Criticism can be constructive or ill-founded. But criticism is  good. Criticism of the sims we have had over all  the years, including P3D, is what brought us FS20. Criticism is what will bring FS20 to its apex. 

I agree that the trees shouldn’t hide the forest but speaking of trees... ok, maybe another time 😉. I have a bread to bake.

PS no way to hide a thread but you have an ignore function which hides posts from people you dont like. 
 

 

Edited August 1, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

7 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

But I will not surrender my freedom to underline what I do not like and frankly speaking I am too old to sing kumbaya holding hands around the fire. Never liked it anyway even when younger. 

I think you'll find people have a lot more to say once the NDA is lifted. 🙂 

Hook