36 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

Its only the default answer because its the default answer every flight sim.  Why would MSFS need to be any different

Because of what was promised and shown in every pre-release video and interview.

But hey, instead of holding Microsoft to what they promised, the flight sim community can go open their wallets and stack band aid on top of band aid yet again into a giant house of cards.

2 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

Sorry but that excuse is just that...an excuse. MSFS has already raised the bar on what “default” can be. Why stop raising the bar? What qualifies something as “Study Level” (🤮 that term) what percentage of non-inop switches or basic system capabilities crosses the “study-level” threshold? When half the world reports accurate live weather, and the other half doesn’t, is it time to call in the 3rd party cavalry because that’s Just the way it’s been done for the past 10+ years?

I don’t want to speak for you, @tpete61, but get the feeling we share the same sentiment here. We both participated in the alpha, own the super deluxe version MSFS, and want to see it thrive. It is not in its current state, however, what was represented in all of the pre-release marketing. People can call it griping if they want. The title hasn’t delivered on those incredibly lofty expectations yet. I’m very excited by was was shown and will continue to encourage Asobo to meet the challenge of delivering that vision. If it comes across as being negative, sorry. It is not intended that way. 

That's fine.  If you're giving them the credit for raising the bar and holding them to this new standard, its kind of a different argument.  That step does sort of render moot comparisons to the other sims though, yes?

I doubt you'ld find any argument in desiring the sim to continue to improve and live up to the expectations we can all imagine it to be.  I find very little doubt that we are indeed on that path regardless of whether anyone thinks it came out too soon.  I'm totally with you in giving them constructive feedback to continue to move the ball forward.

4 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

But hey, instead of holding Microsoft to what they promised, the flight sim community can go open their wallets and stack band aid on top of band aid yet again into a giant house of cards.

Can we get off the Microsoft bashing, and just discuss the sim, warts and all? 🙂

9 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

You will always get polarised views, but I think calling it a 'game to view world scenery' is well wide of the mark. 

True, should call it a game to watch blurry Bing scenery. 

9 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Because of what was promised and shown in every pre-release video and interview.

But hey, instead of holding Microsoft to what they promised, the flight sim community can go open their wallets and stack band aid on top of band aid yet again into a giant house of cards.

I guess I missed the one that said you wouldnt need 3rd party addons.  Do you have a link for that?

10 hours ago, Huascar said:

Yes, the tide of progress is unstoppable, whether it is software (MSFS) or hardware (GPUs and CPUs). I am confident the while imperfect, MSFS is the start of a first class flight simulation. Hardware will make the experience all the better and the improvement are inevitable in terms of patching the imperfections of the game. All we need to do is be more patient, things will improve. 

YES!!!

I love to read a person with positive thoughts!

thanks!

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

How would you login with your Microsoft account into the username/password that is required to get to the main menu if Microsoft decided to shut down the login servers?

How would you download the 100GB of the base game if those servers are gone?

The servers that handle the scenery are not the same servers that allow you to download the game.  If you are contending that Microsoft could pull the product from the MSStore and leave purchaser's in the lurch then the same could be said for the Steam Version of the game or any other published software that is sold today.  

NO game sold today is sold with all the content on the media supplied.  So this concern goes to the entire software industry as it exists today.  And the fears you are suggesting would endanger not just Flight Sim, but the entire xbox catalog.  So I think you're being just a little melodramatic at that point.

My point is that if they fold the 2 petabyte scenery servers, the game will still function offline if it is installed on an existing machine.  Yes certain functionality would not work, just like real weather no longer works on FSX Steam edition.  But the game would still be playable.  But to think that they would shutdown all access to the installer and it's base files seems a little alarmist to me, and would be a concern for ALL software purchased today, not just MSFS.

 

1 minute ago, wthomas33065 said:

But to think that they would shutdown all access to the installer and it's base files seems a little alarmist to me, and would be a concern for ALL software purchased today, not just MSFS.

Some of us remember MS Flight  ☹️

8 hours ago, tpete61 said:

After all the hype has started to settle I hope people realize XP & p3D are better choices at present for a flight simulator. For game playing this product gets the job done!

I get there are bugs and I have experienced some of these bugs myself and they need to be fixed but neither X-Plane 11 (Which is still use and love) and P3D worked right out of the gate on day 1 flawlessly.  It is incredibly short-sighted to see this lobbed around.  I get it.  You spent 100's maybe 1000's of dollars of add-ons blood sweats and tears on making those sims just what you want to be and sure as heck don't want to see them slowly or quickly lose support overnight from add-on developers but we have had 14 years of status quo and milking a dying FSX system and X-Plane 11 trying to woo developer support (and it has come a long way in just the two versions I have been using it for)  I don't think X-Plane will go anywhere but P3D will probably just eventually go out of the consumer market one day.

No idea what point you are trying to prove by saying its not a "flight simulator" but this is one of the dumbest arguments this community has ever come up with.  Like how dare we enjoy this "toy of thing while us big boys will go and play a 'real simulator'"

I think there are strong elements of ego involved personally.  In these types of forums, "gamer" is roughly translated as someone who plays for essentially hedonistic reasons w/ no cares for anything but entertaining oneself, is probably quite young, whereas when you identify as a "simmer", this is ultimately superior on the sophistation side and perhaps even morally.  My guess is there are quite a few who believe they are almost real world pilots because they have gotten into the simulator environment deeply.  In my mind, all of them are entertaining themselves unless they are at a minimum a real world pilot, and ideally a commercial pilot where there are actual consequences.  I'm a full-on gamer, am 67 y/o, but I appreciate study-level airware and continuing learning more and more about RW piloting.  

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by Noel

13 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

If you are contending that Microsoft could pull the product from the MSStore and leave purchaser's in the lurch then the same could be said for the Steam Version of the game or any other published software that is sold today.  

Sure, it's the same for the Steam version, because the Steam download is just a 600MB shim to the full 100GB download off of Microsoft's servers.

The fact that continued existence of the base game is 100% at the whim of Microsoft is definitely something I'd think of before dropping 100s and 100s of dollars on 3rd party add-ons, given what happened with MS Flight.

 

 

 

Man some of you have been so brainwashed and it's scary. Anybody with any criticism of this simulator is told to leave and they are wrong, which is hilarious because it just showcases the insecurity you all have about this buggy and mediocre version of Google Earth.

I paid $120 for this game, I develop for this game, and I'm entitled to voice my displeasure for this game.

It looks pretty but it sucks for those who want to simulate flight.

5 hours ago, w6kd said:

Oh no, I can't let that one go unchallenged--that's absolutely not true.  Objectively (based on flight manual and other tech data) and subjectively (based on r/w flying experience), MSFS has a very long way to go still before it can claim to be at par with the flight dynamics fidelity in either P3D or XPlane, or for that matter FSX.  Just a few simple time-to-climb and fuel burn profiles will amply demonstrate what I mean.  Other metrics, like roll/pitch rate as a function of control surface deflection, are way off.  The default acft provided with the sim simply aren't even close.  Until someone produces an acft model for MSFS that *is* close, I'm not willing to cede acceptance of the flight dynamics advertising as anything but advertising puffery.

Right now, right where the rubber meets the road, MSFS falls far short in this important facet of flight simulation.  It's easily demonstrated if you care to look.

I have to respectfully disagree.  In the context of the default aircraft you are correct but I'd be willing to bet (scratch that forget the bet) once the add-on developers wrap their heads around the default flight dynamic engine we'll have results better than we've seen before in the aircraft they produce.  XPlane may be on notice...  I base this on some of the Youtube videos around where they played with wind and the effects on planes like the Cub.  From a stand still they added wind and to see the plane realistically take off yet stay still in place was one of the test that let me know we're in for something in the near future.  My test on fuel load and it's affects on landing was another area that got me that I didn't think much of in other sims.  Oh yea, by the way I'm a real pilot as well.  Flown everything from gliders to Pipers and Cessna's.  I've even flown a few times back seat in my squadron's F/A-18 Block C Hornets (VAQ-34) when I was in the Navy...

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by Dillon

Just now, Dillon said:

I'd be willing to bet

500.00?

Just now, Adrian123 said:

500.00?

Ok, wrong word use...  I don't like gambling...