As someone from software development, sometimes the code for a fix can be very simple, but testing the fix can be 100x more complex than the fix itself.  For example, my guess is that the code to fix the sensitivity menu bug is probably a 1 or 2 line code fix.  Most likely, there was some simple logic error that caused the bug.  I bet you Asobo probably figured out the fix for this bug within a few hours when their staff returned to work.  1 or 2 line code fix, should be simple, huh?

Well, it's not that simple though.  If the 1 or 2 line fix for that sensitivity bug were in a central function call in a central library that is used by the rest of the menu items, because it affects all other menu items, Asobo then needs to do a regression test and make sure the fix doesn't break all the other menu items.  Otherwise, if they don't test the fix properly, fixing that 1 or 2 lines of code for the sensitivity menu could break 10 other menus.  Unit testing and automated testing help in this regard, but it still needs to be tested by a person. 

And as other people have mentioned, there is likely some quality assurance (QA) process that Asobo has to go through for a patch, even a hotfix.  Of course, they have to go through their own QA testing process.  Then they probably have to go through a QA & release process within Microsoft, for the Windows Store, and for Steam.  Note that the QA process and patch release process might be completely separate processes, which adds more to the red tape. Then there are probably other processes they have to go through that we don't even know of.  

Having said that, either Microsoft or Asobo need to figure out a way to issue hotfixes faster in their QA & release process.  It's not flexible and it's not very reactive.  At the minimum, if Microsoft/Asobo are aware of the red tape they go through for every patch release is that complex and long, then Asobo should ask for volunteer beta testers from the community. With 1 million players of the game and all the activity on the official MSFS forums, Asobo could easily find 200+ volunteer beta testers with professional software development or professional software testing experience, so these testers can properly document any bugs they find.  And these beta testers can all be volunteer which means Asobo doesn't have to pay them.  The problem right now is that they appear to have a very complex release process for patches, but yet they refuse to compose a volunteer beta testing team.

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by abrams_tank

5 hours ago, Chock said:

Yup. I'm surprised they didn't jump on the three obvious issues born of the second patch with a hotfix (missing control sensitivities, avionics shutdown issue and port engine shutdown on the A320). I guess they have their reasons, but if there was a choice to do so and I'd have been in a position to make it so at Asobo, personally I'd have made it a priority, just for good customer relations if nothing else.

That sort of speedy response goes a long way with customers, but more damagingly, its lack thereof promotes a lot of negative chatter on the intertron, and that can affect sales in a really big way, even after the problem has been fixed. There's no news travels as fast as bad news and a poor reputation is hard to shake off.

 

5 hours ago, Jetman67 said:

You are absolutely right,it just leaves a bad impression and plants the seed of doubt about future work,alas here is hoping the next patch is spot on. This Sim has much potential

 

5 hours ago, Jetman67 said:

Agreed Microsoft should be thinking about their reputation also

Complete tosh! Most of the problems are self inflicted caused by users trying to run in 2k or 4k on a system that's not able enough. The other problems are acknowledged by Asobo, and will be fixed in due course. Good God! the sim has barely been out for two months and we already have the most incredible piece of software ever! Add to that an unbelievable amount of free addons already being released, for goodness sake give it a rest with all the negatives!

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

s someone from software development, sometimes the code for a fix can be very simple, but testing the fix can be 100x more complex than the fix itself.  For example, my guess is that the code to fix the sensitivity menu bug is probably a 1 or 2 line code fix.  Most likely, there was some simple logic error that caused the bug.  I bet you Asobo probably figured out the fix for this bug within a few hours when their staff returned to work.  1 or 2 line code fix, should be simple, huh?

I am not a software guy but flightsim users have always oversimplified the solution because they don't really understand what is involved.

'Complete tosh! Most of the problems are self inflicted caused by users trying to run in 2k or 4k on a system that's not able enough. The other problems are acknowledged by Asobo, and will be fixed in due course. Good God! the sim has barely been out for two months and we already have the most incredible piece of software ever! Add to that an unbelievable amount of free addons already being released, for goodness sake give it a rest with all the negatives!'

---------------------------------------------

...and response;

Sorry, I see things differently than you.  My $183.00 CDN, for the Premium Deluxe MSFS version,  says that I have the right to ***NOT BE HAPPY***, as to the current state of affairs of this RTM sim....no MATTER how long it has been since RTM.  Sorry....not too happy or impressed at the moment, and I have 183 reasons to feel the way I do....

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by Sesquashtoo

Indeed, & gamerz/simmerz expect to be on a volunteer beta testing team?

Erm.. we have a release of the game, Do you want to test updates? Playing the game should be testing it!

I'm sure, as they are a well established gaming developer, they do have plans in place & the expectation that they need 200+ volunteers to professionally test for them.. for free!

What you can do, if you are bored already, is to fly around, as you usually do, & pass on what you think that needs to be fixed back to them. That's exactly the same thing.. So, just carry on. 

Arrogance of telling a game developer what to do & how to run their business?

Well said ErichB, I love the expectations that avsimmers have, and the advice they have for Asobo.

Frigging sensitivity menu is missing since the patch, stop being apologists for companies.

I don't understand why there is no separate beta branch which other modern sims (X-Plane, AeroflyFS2) and many other games on Steam have, where you can opt in or out. AeroflyFS2 had a couple of toxic betas, where users just could opt out to go flying again.

Kind regards, Michael

28 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

Indeed, & gamerz/simmerz expect to be on a volunteer beta testing team?

Erm.. we have a release of the game, Do you want to test updates? Playing the game should be testing it!

I'm sure, as they are a well established gaming developer, they do have plans in place & the expectation that they need 200+ volunteers to professionally test for them.. for free!

What you can do, if you are bored already, is to fly around, as you usually do, & pass on what you think that needs to be fixed back to them. That's exactly the same thing.. So, just carry on. 

Arrogance of telling a game developer what to do & how to run their business?

Well said ErichB, I love the expectations that avsimmers have, and the advice they have for Asobo.

The sensitivity menu bug is arguably a door stopper.  There is no way the patch should have gone ahead with such an obvious bug that affects so many people.

Every other game company with complex games uses a volunteer beta testing team from the community before they release their patch to the general public.  Even MSFS used a volunteer testing team in their alpha but for whatever reason, they disbanded their alpha testing team (who were all volunteers and unpaid).

Asobo's internal testing team is not up to the job if they miss something like the sensitivity menu bug.  It's a no brainer to add a beta testing team made up of volunteers from the community, which is a standard for many other games out there.

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by abrams_tank

4 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

The next status report to the community (which they confusingly cause an 'update') is tomorrow.

Or today usually around 11.00 pm here in the UK.

1 hour ago, pmb said:

I don't understand why there is no separate beta branch which other modern sims (X-Plane, AeroflyFS2) and many other games on Steam have, where you can opt in or out. AeroflyFS2 had a couple of toxic betas, where users just could opt out to go flying again.

Kind regards, Michael

Before release Asobo were talking about Tech Alpha/Beta Testers being able to test new updates before release, I don't know what happened to this plan or even if it is still a plan or not?

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by eaim

There were two distinct camps in the flightsim world when MSFS was in Alpha.

1. The 'Oh please just release it, I'll be happy to test it' camp  - they were going to buy it anyway.

and then...

2. The 'There's no way it's ready yet.  I'd rather wait until its properly done than buy an unfinished version' camp

So guess which camp bought it anyway and are now complaining that it's not finished yet.

 

 

 

Perhaps they are "all hands on deck" getting ready for the XBox release. I'm not making excuses for Asobo, I'm just hopeful that once the XBox version launches, they'll be able to assign more resources to fix all these bugs and finish missing features.

26 minutes ago, Keto Ketchup said:

Perhaps they are "all hands on deck" getting ready for the XBox release. I'm not making excuses for Asobo, I'm just hopeful that once the XBox version launches, they'll be able to assign more resources to fix all these bugs and finish missing features.

Not really because the bugs would be an issue on Xbox its in their best interest to stabilize the PC edition first and optimize it then port it to XBox and optimize what they need there.  I think its more like others have said MS has a process and schedule they want to do and by golly that is what thy will do.  It makes sense that on their Xbox service they have a patch schedule but still would have liked to see something pushed at least within a week as a hotfix.

3 hours ago, SierraHotel said:

 

 

Complete tosh! Most of the problems are self inflicted caused by users trying to run in 2k or 4k on a system that's not able enough. The other problems are acknowledged by Asobo, and will be fixed in due course. Good God! the sim has barely been out for two months and we already have the most incredible piece of software ever! Add to that an unbelievable amount of free addons already being released, for goodness sake give it a rest with all the negatives!

For a kick off, I'm running it in 1080, not that this should matter. But regardless of this, all three of the things I mentioned which should, in my opinion, have been hotfixed were in no way user inflicted. That'd be avionics conking out, a sensitivity adjustment menu option which is completely missing despite have the GUI to select it, and some sort of electrical or bleed air issue causing the engine shutting down on the A320 if you turn off the APU.

This combination of issues makes the A320 essentially unflyable for its purpose, it causes control issues with all the other aeroplanes, it makes ATC completely unusable, and it makes IFR navigation impossible. On a flight sim, this is not what I would class as a minor issue, it makes the thing pretty much unusable for a large portion of its intended utility, and when that's the case, it is not what I would call 'the most incredible software ever'.

Basically, if the thing is called 'flight simulator' and it shows a shot of an A320 prominently on the box artwork, but the software is incapable of running that A320 properly and cannot simulate a flight with it, then pointing this out and suggesting fixing it should be a priority with a hotfix, that's not 'complete tosh', that's asking for the product to be fit for purpose.

As a developer/tester I can tell you quite simply it comes down to testing time.  A small patch or a big patch needs the exact same amount of testing (usually a lot, and even then obviously tons of things get missed).  As a qa department of one, I will tell you that testing anything complex is a difficult task.  You look at a change and try to guess what could break... (but of course if what was going to break was obvious, the coders would have found it).  So, you try and click every button and test all that you can, but it is super time consuming.  You never know when two completely unrelated things somehow break each other.  So whatever thing broke control sensitivities, the fix might break something else.  

Not trying to make excuses for anyone or anything, just shedding some light on things.  How many bugs are so intermittent that only some of us see them?  Testing for those kinds of things is so difficult.  

Plus I've mentioned before how many development shops from industries all over are adopting agile programming.  In agile, you set up a "sprint" period, often 2 weeks where you code, test, release, and then repeat each 2 weeks.  Not everyone uses 2 weeks, but I'm betting Asobo does.  I bet they'll announce a patch coming out next week.