Sorry to say, but what a funny thread. If some people here would listen to themselves, they would realize that they are talking as if this is software for a real airplane and if bugs don't get fixed then people will loose their lives. Most people here should really relax a bit. It's a game. And Asobo is sticking to its development plan instead of running around like a chicken without a head trying to hot fix minor problems. Just let them work, relax a bit and everything will be fine shortly...

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by carlito777

1 minute ago, carlito777 said:

minor problems

congrats on ignoring everything that was said. Minor issues, right...

1 hour ago, Keto Ketchup said:

Perhaps they are "all hands on deck" getting ready for the XBox release.

This may or may not be the case, but if it is, then it's their problem, not mine or anyone else who bought the PC version. It's up to them to employ more staff if they want to make something else.

Can you imagine if Ford said: 'sorry about the steering wheel in your new Ford Focus being massively oversensitive and your instrument binnacle conking out five minutes after you set off, we'd fix it, but unfortunately we're too busy making our new Ford Transit van.'

3 hours ago, ErichB said:

There were two distinct camps in the flightsim world when MSFS was in Alpha.

1. The 'Oh please just release it, I'll be happy to test it' camp  - they were going to buy it anyway.

and then...

2. The 'There's no way it's ready yet.  I'd rather wait until its properly done than buy an unfinished version' camp

So guess which camp bought it anyway and are now complaining that it's not finished yet.

 

 

 

Yeah no, if they had said "hey this is an open paid beta" or "early access" i would agree, but they are selling a completed product, the release trailer has things that weren't even implemented in the places they were showcasing (water masking) , on top of that they offered a product at a premium(the 787) and I cannot finish a flight without it being completely unresponsive, nose diving etc. Thats our issue with it.

2 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

Yeah no, if they had said "hey this is an open paid beta" or "early access" i would agree, but they are selling a completed product, the release trailer has things that weren't even implemented in the places they were showcasing (water masking) , on top of that they offered a product at a premium(the 787) and I cannot finish a flight without it being completely unresponsive, nose diving etc. Thats our issue with it.

ErichB forgot to add the 3rd camp..

3. Me, Me, Me, I want to be the first!! I'm not going to read any reviews, obviously I do not care what others think about it & and I'll just download the game & hold a pity part afterwards..(maybe ask for a refund as well!)

I do take responsibility of not looking on what was wrong with it before I bought it from 3rd parties, guess I was blinded by the blind love for this sim on this forum. I still have fun with the tbm and there are good things about the sim, but Its the principle of it really. Your right though we should just sit quietly and not criticize what is wrong with the industry these days...

26 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

but they are selling a completed product,

Well, did they?  I don't agree. 

They said this product is going to be developed over a 10 year period - which by definition means - it's not finished.    Remember, we are investing in a platform here for the next 10 years. I honestly would have paid $300 - $500 for this , if that was the price.    I saw it as a 10 year investment.  By any calculation, it's chump change for the pleasure it provides and will provide over 10 years.  You could pay 10 times more for a golf putter.

Let's get some perspective here based on our very recent history.

If you were a P3D user (of all 5 professional versions), then you paid £1000 or $1000 for a DEFAULT looking P3D over the space of roughly 10 years  - and then you still had to layer it with overpriced addons which cost you probably £1000's more over 10 years so that it would look at least as good as default MSFS.    Apart from Truesky, did P3D V5 look materially different from P3D V1?  No.  Not at all.  In fact, it looked exactly the same.

Did P3D have amazing default aircraft? - definitely not

Did P3D have amazing default scenery? - most definitely not

Did P3D offer anything to any user other than being a platform for commercial developers to sell you addons? - definitely not

$120 for the MSFS Premium Version platform ? - Biggest flightsim platform bargain in the history of flightsimming.

Perspective is everything in this debate.

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by ErichB

9 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

I do take responsibility of not looking on what was wrong with it before I bought it from 3rd parties, guess I was blinded by the blind love for this sim on this forum. I still have fun with the tbm and there are good things about the sim, but Its the principle of it really. Your right though we should just sit quietly and not criticize what is wrong with the industry these days...

Remember, it's just a game & it's not going to bring the industry to it's knees, nor ruin Asobo & Microsoft's reputaion, as indicated above.

Nothing wrong with the gaming industry at all, only 'Fools that rush in, where angels fear to tread'

Dont blame the industry for rushing in without due diligence.

The line Fools rush in where angels fear to tread was first written by Alexander Pope in his 1711 poem An Essay on Criticism. The phrase alludes to inexperienced or rash people attempting things that more experienced people avoid. It has since entered the general English lexicon as an idiom. Wikipedia

You make good points and I agree with 99% of them. And you are right it is JUST a game. Luckily i have other great games to tie me down, and Note, I don't necessarily regret giving Asobo my money (because of my love for this industry im willing to give them money even if the chance of good things is only 20%, which I think it has amazing potential...)  I'm happy to see where it goes, and really all I would like is that the 787 would stay in the air and follow a basic 1200+/- fpm climb/descent. That alone (for me I know others are having way bigger issues) would allow me to enjoy the sim the way I want to.

2 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

You make good points and I agree with 99% of them. And you are right it is JUST a game. Luckily i have other great games to tie me down, and Note, I don't necessarily regret giving Asobo my money (because of my love for this industry im willing to give them money even if the chance of good things is only 20%, which I think it has amazing potential...)  I'm happy to see where it goes, and really all I would like is that the 787 would stay in the air and follow a basic 1200+/- fpm climb/descent. That alone (for me I know others are having way bigger issues) would allow me to enjoy the sim the way I want to.

Enjoy, by the way, Note that  I'm sure you bought the game from Microsoft, Asobo, as far as I know, is not selling the game, nor marketing it. They are contracted by Microsoft, as one of Microsoft's 16 contracted game developing studios, to develop MSFS. Rather give money to the add-on developers working for themselves, or buy shares in Microsoft, if you like the industry. Unfortunately, Asobo is not a public company selling shares, so you cannot really give them any money, or buy in to them.

Ah word not allowed I guess I gave my money to good ol microsoft insead... oh well..

To fix something it needs to be replicated in house so that they can see what's causing it.  Also, hotfixes require QA, so you don't issue a single "hot fix" for one issues.  You just can't do that.

So while missing control sensitivity is a no brainer.  (hey, its not there anymore).  Avionics shutdown isn't.  I have NEVER had Avionics shutdown on me.  I've had other issues, but NOT this one.  And even a dedicated thread to this shows about a 50% reproduction rate amongst users here on this forum.  And when asked by users to recreate, we get smug little responses like (Fly any plane, it happens).  

Give me a break.  

Ignorance about software development is one thing.  But when a lot of people who know nothing about software development come on here and try to tell developers how to do their jobs, It's pathetic.  And it's even more pathetic, when they question the character of the people involved. 

A new world update is dropping in a week to add a completely new area with satellite and photogrammetric coverage.  But Asobo is just sitting on their hands, and Microsoft is going to shut down MSFS like they did with Flight.  Yeah, OK dude.  

If you see a bug, report it, try to give as much detail as you can regarding what the circumstances were surrounding the bug.  The more the better.  And once reported, DONE.

And if for some reason you can't enjoy MSFS, then go back to P3D or XP or whatever and enjoy.  

I promise you.  Those of us who DO enjoy the sim and have more patience than a 5 year old having a temper tantrum, will not go waltzing over to the XP or P3D forums and start talking smack.

It is a perfectly logical thing to say that you can't just release a hotfix or other software updates quickly because it must go through rigorous QA first. I'll buy that. The only problem is that, if this rigorous testing is the norm, how did the update go out without knowing that the controller sensitivity UI was no longer visible? This is a glaring omission and was discovered almost immediately after release by users. It's not like some deep bug that requires a number of steps done a certain way to get a failure. You could understand how something like that could get missed. It's kind of like the altitude control knob missing from the Baron 58 (fixed now), how could that not be known? That would be revealed in any very basic test. Within a couple minutes of loading that plane I was scratching my head trying to figure out where that knob was.

Another curious case is the Longitude; a beautiful interior, the lighting works well, but... there is no way anyone tried to make a flight of more than an hour or so as that plane as it will drop out of the sky in about an hour and a half with full fuel. The fuel burn at altitude is way too high and I also understand the fuel capacity isn't correct either. It is supposed to be able to fly 6 1/2 hours. How could they not know that it is that messed up if there is such rigorous testing in place?

I sound like I'm complaining a lot, but I'm actually quite happy with fs2020 and that they are actively working on it, so I will give them time. I just find it a little much to talk of all this rigorous QA going on. It looks more to me like they are opting for speed of release (with some bugs) over very long and drawn out beta testing and a much later and more polished product release. I'm OK with it, since I'd rather have it, bugs and all, and look forward to updates. For now, I'm happy with the C172, TBM930, the Longitude (with fuel set to 'unlimited' for the time being). Looking forward to PMDG type aircraft down the line.

3 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

I have NEVER had Avionics shutdown on me.  I've had other issues, but NOT this one.  And even a dedicated thread to this shows about a 50% reproduction rate amongst users here on this forum.  And when asked by users to recreate, we get smug little responses like (Fly any plane, it happens).  

Give me a break.  

If they game had suitable telemetry/debugging capability built in, then there would be logs that someone could send over that would assist in tracking down these issues.

They have created an incredibly complicated piece of software with no thought on how to address problems.

Keep a log of all control inputs and panel button presess, AP inputs, and critical flight parameters for the last 30 seconds and give us a button we can press to save the log.  That would get to the bottom of the avionics issues, AP issues, etc very quickly.

The great  thing about  the sensitivity bug  is that it is now (at least for me) faster to adjust the sensitivity than before.

Before: Pause, Controls, click proper controller tab, click Sensitivities, drag tiny blue bar a % or two, click save, click back to sim window.

Now: Pause,  click desktop shortcut to folder that hold the sensitivity profiles, click profile for controller of interest, delete two digits and type in the two new digits (sensitivity %), click save. You don't have to even leave the flying window.

I find that Now is faster and easier than Before. Of course before the bug, you could adjust it either way, but I did not know how to edit profiles with keyboard.