PMDG 777-200ER Released

[Michael Moe 495]

Hi , i cant remember but is Airport moving map part of this update as we have it in the 747-8 on the ND?

Thanks Michael Moe

Edited February 28, 2021 by Michael Moe

[OzWhitey 3,353]

43 minutes ago, threegreen said:

You'll find that poking your head out of (or bumping into) the side window is just a 737 thing as the cockpit is rather small and doesn't allow for a lot of movement. That's the beauty of flying in VR though, you get to 'be' in the cockpit and experience all these things about the real aircraft at home.

It sounds like you know more about this than me, 3G, but I'm 98% sure that when you bump your head on the window of the NG in flight, it doesn't travel straight through it out into the slipstream.

Joking aside, it's the clipping that is unrealistic and reminds me that I'm just in a sim. With some aircraft - the NGX, and even sometimes the 747 - I end up moving my eye point a few clicks to the right. With the T7, no need to do this. 

I may have actually come up with a solution while typing this. I'm going to move my chair three feet over to the left, next to my office window. Now when I slam my head on the side window of the NG in-sim, I'll also slam my actual head onto actual glass. No clipping, added realism, what's not to love? 🙂

 

 

[SAS443 1,723]

11 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

t sounds like you know more about this than me, 3G, but I'm 98% sure that when you bump your head on the window of the NG in flight, it doesn't travel straight through it out into the slipstream.

You know what the most dangerous part of a Piper PA28 is?

It's NOT the prop...it's the sharp edge of the bloody sunvisor.

I have lost count how many times I've hit that with my fat head when looking for traffic and what not. It seriously hurts.  😂

[threexgreen 3,139]

32 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

It sounds like you know more about this than me, 3G, but I'm 98% sure that when you bump your head on the window of the NG in flight, it doesn't travel straight through it out into the slipstream.

Joking aside, it's the clipping that is unrealistic and reminds me that I'm just in a sim. With some aircraft - the NGX, and even sometimes the 747 - I end up moving my eye point a few clicks to the right. With the T7, no need to do this. 

I may have actually come up with a solution while typing this. I'm going to move my chair three feet over to the left, next to my office window. Now when I slam my head on the side window of the NG in-sim, I'll also slam my actual head onto actual glass. No clipping, added realism, what's not to love? 🙂

I actually have part of a pitched roof right to the left of where I'm sitting when I'm simming, so going too far left with my headset means I'm bumping into it. I approve of your solution, you'll love the immersion. 😄

Though I'm wondering about your view point in the VC. In the NGXu I rarely ever clip through the side window and if I do it's usually because I grab something from the shelf far away, so no surprise. Even when turning around almost 180 degrees while moving to the left to see the wing through the cockpit window I don't clip the window. Maybe you know this already, but you shouldn't adjust your view point by looking at the PFD because that's actually slightly left of the seat and the yoke. Instead look down and move right until you're in the middle of the seat. I sometimes tend to move left with my rolling chair a bit because I get fooled by the PFD position which kills much of the room I have to the window.

[kingm56 1,031]

2 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Did you not read my post that you’re replying to? As I noted, you’re wrong about PMDG charging for 64 bit upgrades. I bought the P3D 777 in 2015. We didn’t have 64-bit P3D until over 2 years later.  FSL charged to upgrade their bus to a 64 bit version at this time, PMDG did not.

 

 

I am referring to cross platform (eg. FSX (32 bit) vs P3D (64-bit)) utilization, which I believe is commonly understood vernacular within flt sim realm. So, while PMDG did not charge you from going from P3D V3 to V4, they certainly charged us from going to FSX to P3D, which was the crux of my 64-bit statement.  If you recall, you paid an aggerated price; in return, PMDG promised to provide future updates to your P3D product.  To their credit, they kept thier word (as they always do); however, to suggest it was 'free' is not entirely true.  You paid for the upgrade in your initial price; it's similar to car dealers who provide 'free' oil changes for x years.  They're not free, they're covered via doc fees or other costs.  Regardless, if you go back and read my post you noticed I said "new models."  These were not new models; you're VC has remained untouched across all platforms; to obtain new 777 types(eg. ER), you have to pay $77.  Again, for the 4x, PMDG has never provided a new and/or upgraded model (e.g. aircraft type or vc) for free...never.  Again, I will make a gentlemen's bet the upgraded 777 VC will only be included for expansion owners, or be a separate purchase.  

Edited February 28, 2021 by kingm56

[micstatic 4,319]

I can’t imagine the blistering backlash if they try to sell the new vc to er expansion owners. 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

9 hours ago, MarkW said:

Tony, I think the Zibo 737 in X-Plane is very close to the PMDG offering...and its free.

MarkW,

I am very much aware that this aircraft is up and running beautifully. I do fly it regularly and love it.  For P3Dv4, iFly 737 and 747 are very worthy and cheaper alternatives to the PMDG variants.  Please note also, that iFly has not yet updated to P3Dv5, and I do not know if they intend to. However, I am not aware of any good quality or cheaper versions of the 777 for the later ESP platforms.

 

10 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

No offence taken, my friend. My response had nothing to do with the (less than top end) power of my own PC. I just wanted to make it clear that nobody has to re-mortgage their house to get good performance in P3D

Good to hear mate.  I think the most important thing to realize for those with lower end systems, is that chasing 300FPS is pointless and I found that I could run it very smoothly, albeit with sliders edging to the left, at 20FPS.  The same applies to MSFS although I would say that a smooth 30FPS is certainly flyable, However, this is all off topic and we should probably focus on the PMDG 777 upgrade.

PMDG and their products have always maintained this pricing policy to my knowledge.  There is probably not many people who do not acknowledge that most of their products are a reflection of a lot of work, mostly flawless performance, and quality (this one appears to be a temporary glitch) I would love to be able to afford all their products but they are simply out of my financial range.  

Thank you all for the comments. 

Tony

[Bob Scott 7,721]

3 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

I think the most important thing to realize for those with lower end systems, is that chasing 300FPS is pointless

I'd say that applies to those with high-end systems as well...  😜

[DJ Rosko 33]

7 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

Can't even imagine quality if FSL announce long haul ACFT.

We really need an A330 from them along with the Concorde.  
 

As for PMDG..  

Bought the T7 and expansion as I’d never had it before. I did London to Hong Kong overnight.  Definitely not up to PMDG normal standards. I’m disappointed and hope they’ll release some fixes for it soon.  I don’t get how FSlabs has all the immersion stuff baked in but you have to pay Parallel 42/Orbx to get the same for the PMDG stuff.  

[OzWhitey 3,353]

6 hours ago, kingm56 said:

I am referring to cross platform (eg. FSX (32 bit) vs P3D (64-bit)) utilization, which I believe is commonly understood vernacular within flt sim realm.

Lol, no it's not "commonly understood vernacular", you were just factually wrong in what you stated and are continuing to try and redefine things to make it sound like you weren't. P3D has, of course, been 32-bit for the majority of its history. 

When I bought the 777, we had no idea that a 64 bit version of P3D would be arriving in a couple of years (it was speculated, but no consumer knew when/if it would actually happen). There's a conceptual difference between the P3D platform and 64 bit support. The simple fact is that PMDG chose not to charge for the upgrade to 64-bit support for the 777. If you'd been around and paying attention at the time, you'd know that the decision was a pleasant surprise when it was announced. Some other companies did not do us the same favor.

The broader issue is that you're being highly speculative about what PMDG is doing - and were being pretty aggressive about it earlier in the thread - this is just one specific, factual point on which your are incorrect. 

[kingm56 1,031]

1 hour ago, OzWhitey said:

Lol, no it's not "commonly understood vernacular", you were just factually wrong in what you stated and are continuing to try and redefine things to make it sound like you weren't. P3D has, of course, been 32-bit for the majority of its history. 

When I bought the 777, we had no idea that a 64 bit version of P3D would be arriving in a couple of years (it was speculated, but no consumer knew when/if it would actually happen). There's a conceptual difference between the P3D platform and 64 bit support. The simple fact is that PMDG chose not to charge for the upgrade to 64-bit support for the 777. If you'd been around and paying attention at the time, you'd know that the decision was a pleasant surprise when it was announced. Some other companies did not do us the same favor.

The broader issue is that you're being highly speculative about what PMDG is doing - and were being pretty aggressive about it earlier in the thread - this is just one specific, factual point on which your are incorrect. 

I do not accept I was incorrect; it was clear to everyone but you  I was referring to FSX to P3D...you're being purposely obtuse and/or intellectually dishonest.  Also, it's funny how you accuse others of being factually incorrect while simultaneously ignoring your own errors.  As another poster highlighted, and you ignored, you were dead-wrong about FSL charging for P3D V4/5 upgrades.  In fact, unlike PMDG, they offered a substantial discount for FSX-to-P3D upgrades. Employing your criteria, I could accuse you of being 'aggressive' towards FSL.  Also, for the 5x time now, PMDG has NEVER offered a model update for free. So, I don't understand how it's 'aggressive' to state they're unlikely to do so for the 777.  This is your 3rd reply; yet, you failed to state your opinion...do you believe the VC upgrade will be free or included with the 'expansion' pack?  If it's the latter, what's the purpose of this exchange other than to provide you with opportunity to play flight sim defense lawyer...again!?  As consumers, we should feel free to voice our opinions and concerns to promote positive change. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by kingm56

[mpo910 2,112]

Guys.....I find this topic really interesting....till I came to the posts where it has left the topic and some of you are arguing about what was said and what was not said.

Please do not forget....we are all in the same boat, we like our hobby and no one has the intention to harm anybody... (I assume)😃

So....maybe we can stay to the topic......the discussion is really interesting.

Thanks a lot.

Marcus

 

 

 

[SKEWR 364]

I bought the expansion and here's my two cents... (or, my seventy seven dollars and seventy two cents)

In flight, I did notice the plane was more "Slippery". I've almost never had to use speed brakes on the 777 before the update, but I have on the flights I've taken so far. The flare seems different but I'll need to do more landings probably. For me, VNAV worked well. No issues. I did like hearing the different engine sounds in the cockpit. For me: no flight control problems, no activation issues and no crazy bounces. As a non 777 pilot I'm guessing there are some other things I've not noticed.

Questionable items? Like so many have posted, the missing engine animations and the external sounds that are arguably the same as the original 777 are an issue. I would have never looked, but apparently the textures in the engine (looking from the rear to the front of the fan blades) are missing or were never added. The interior windows don't look right as the textures are reused (there's a post somewhere in the forums on this.) In the EFB, with Navigraph initialization, it references the 787-8i EFB (not sure if that's PMDG or Navigraph). I also had a situation on one landing as the nosewheel stayed off the ground for a very long time after main gear touchdown (front gear touchdown was around 75 knots when it dropped with no elevator input, AP disconnected)

IMO, it seems OK. If you really enjoy simming the 777 or if you need to add a widebody to your P3D fleet, then get this. If you can pass on a widebody for P3D v5, maybe check this out after some updates. With me NOT understanding the behind the scenes programming (which are purportedly extensive from looking at the change logs), this seems almost like a port over versus a re work based upon some of the items I mentioned above. The 777 does not contain the polish that PMDG used to be known for, but it is a very flyable, complex addon.

[Hoang 108]

11 minutes ago, SKEWR said:

I bought the expansion and here's my two cents... (or, my seventy seven dollars and seventy two cents)

In flight, I did notice the plane was more "Slippery". I've almost never had to use speed brakes on the 777 before the update, but I have on the flights I've taken so far. The flare seems different but I'll need to do more landings probably. For me, VNAV worked well. No issues. I did like hearing the different engine sounds in the cockpit. For me: no flight control problems, no activation issues and no crazy bounces. As a non 777 pilot I'm guessing there are some other things I've not noticed.

Questionable items? Like so many have posted, the missing engine animations and the external sounds that are arguably the same as the original 777 are an issue. I would have never looked, but apparently the textures in the engine (looking from the rear to the front of the fan blades) are missing or were never added. The interior windows don't look right as the textures are reused (there's a post somewhere in the forums on this.) In the EFB, with Navigraph initialization, it references the 787-8i EFB (not sure if that's PMDG or Navigraph). I also had a situation on one landing as the nosewheel stayed off the ground for a very long time after main gear touchdown (front gear touchdown was around 75 knots when it dropped with no elevator input, AP disconnected)

IMO, it seems OK. If you really enjoy simming the 777 or if you need to add a widebody to your P3D fleet, then get this. If you can pass on a widebody for P3D v5, maybe check this out after some updates. With me NOT understanding the behind the scenes programming (which are purportedly extensive from looking at the change logs), this seems almost like a port over versus a re work based upon some of the items I mentioned above. The 777 does not contain the polish that PMDG used to be known for, but it is a very flyable, complex addon.

Agree. I did a short flight today, and had to use the speedbrake because it kept gliding, PMDG already stated that it is closer to the real ones than before. Navigraph during login IIRC it shows 747-8i which IIRC other PMDGs aircraft are the same, I don't know if it's a bug or not but it does not affect anything. For the nosewheel, I remembered a member over PMDG forum can keep the nose up high until ground speed 29kt  taxi speed, that was interesting!

I tested the 300ER one not 200ER, manual flying is rather difficult as it is too sensitive and the FBW clearly something not right, if PMDG upgraded the logic between engine thrust <--> pitch then they did it too much, whenever there is a change in thrust the pitch behavior is enormous

 

[flycln 435]

4 hours ago, kingm56 said:

I do not accept I was incorrect; it was clear to everyone but you

No, it wasn’t. You keep being wrong and then moving the goal posts. It’s ridiculous. 
 

First you claim they’re definitely gonna charge for the cockpit upgrade (they didn’t for the external model), but who knows. I don’t and you surely don’t either. 
 

Then you claim it’s related to MSFS so people tell you that the cockpit upgrade is coming to the existing 777 line. So immediately you move the goal posts and claim that a mere PBR update isn’t what you meant. 
 

The bit about having to pay for the transition from 32 to 64 bit was just the most blatant of your many errors. And of course, as soon as you’re called out, you start claiming you meant something different and that everybody got that. 
 

You’re not doing yourself any favors here. You’re making one ridiculous statement/assumption after the other and getting called out on them again and again. The desperate moving of goal posts to make us believe you weren’t REALLY wrong is either tedious or amusing, I can’t yet decide.