33 minutes ago, w6kd said:

When the expense of MSFS starts to exceed the benefits in terms of both revenue and perceived intangibles like PR and platform validation for other projects, the executives at MS will make a business decision.  For us old guys, we still remember the business decisions made to, first, shut off the FSX multiplayer servers (guess they weren't *that* cheap after all), and then to summarily disband ACES.

This is the whole reason Jorg approached the executives at Microsoft to convince them that they could get sustained revenue from MSFS via the MSFS marketplace.  Randazzo from PMDG disclosed this - check the PMDG forums and Randazzo's quote where he said Jorg convinced the executives at Microsoft to go ahead with MSFS because people will continue to buy new products from the MSFS marketplace over the years.

I also want to point out that Steve Ballmer was the CEO of Microsoft during that period and made the decision with Aces and Microsoft Flight.  The CEO now is Satya Nadella. It was Satya Nadella that Jorg ultimately convinced to green light MSFS (either directly, or indirectly through the other executives). 

To add fuel to the fire, MSFS is being released with X-Box, which increases the number of MSFS players even more.  It becomes harder to pull the plug, and much more of a PR catastrophe, when you have more players using MSFS, especially if streaming satellite/photogrammetry data isn't all that expensive, as mrueedi and psolk pointed out in their analysis.  Most likely, Jorg and the other executives did a forecast of the costs involved to run MSFS over the years, and determined that streaming satellite/photogrammetry data really isn't all that expensive.

I agree with you that it's $$$ that matters the most.  If there are one hundred to two hundred workers working full time on MSFS this year, I doubt Microsoft/Asobo will keep one hundred to two hundred workers on MSFS by the 9th or 10th year.  Most likely, over the years, Microsoft/Asobo will gradually reduce the number of workers working on MSFS.  Perhaps there will be a skeleton crew of workers, most of them part time, working on MSFS by the 9th and 10th year.

And concerning $$$, when Jorg and Asobo said MSFS is a 10 year project, I fully expect MSFS 2 to come out around 2030 or so.  This will allow Microsoft to make another round of $$$ from the flight sim community, especially if add-ons in MSFS are not compatible with MSFS 2. 

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

3 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I doubt Microsoft/Asobo will keep one hundred to two hundred workers on MSFS by the 9th or 10th year.  Most likely, over the years, Microsoft/Asobo will gradually reduce the number of workers working on MSFS.  Perhaps there will be a skeleton crew of workers, most of them part time, working on MSFS by the 9th and 10th year. 

Or develop a new version of MSFS. Or develop spin offs from MSFS like Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator or even conquer the commerical world with MSFS version tailored for enterprise. 

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by omarsmak30

Just some food for thought  - Microsoft Office became Office 365. Never say never.

Just now, omarsmak30 said:

Or develop a new version of MSFS. Develop spin offs from MSFS like Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator or even conquer the commerical world with MSFS version tailored for enterprise. 

Yup, I agree with you.  Microsoft is totally gonna milk MSFS for every penny they get out of it.  I can totally see a Microsoft Combat Flight simulator, or entry into the commercial market.  And the way that Microsoft can render the entire world with satellite & photogrammetry, I bet if they refine this technology further, a lot of companies will want to use it - think of the gaming application of it alone, such as GTA or Second Life, etc.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Yup, I agree with you.  Microsoft is totally gonna milk MSFS for every penny they get out of it.  I can totally see a Microsoft Combat Flight simulator, or entry into the commercial market.  And the way that Microsoft can render the entire world with satellite & photogrammetry, I bet if they refine this technology further, a lot of companies will want to use it - think of the gaming application of it alone, such as GTA or Second Life, etc.

Excatly! I wouldn't worry to be honest, as you say, they can use the same exact technology with the same servers in a new game that utilizes that. After all, they are not stupid unless they have some plans to generate constant cash flow. 

For now, sit back, relax and enjoy the flight 😁

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by omarsmak30

Microsoft owns bing maps, so I imagine they only costs are server maintenance, internet, power and employees.

Well and I guess paying whoever they buy the imagery from.

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by Tuskin38

I could Imagine two major objectives that will fund MSFS over the next years:

1. Create the Digital Twin. This can generate Business Cases for Microsoft nobody is fully aware of at the moment. Most likely targeting the consumer market, but who knows. for sure this goes far beyond ‚Aviation‘ or ‚Games‘.

2. Transform Xbox into a subsription based streaming Service. Always connected, no Hardware required, ready to launch all entertainment products from any device. Hardware does not provide a margin Microsoft is used to, competition with Sony is fierce and they have the technology nobody else has in the industry. See: Protocol…

 

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by urthgental

So now that MSFS is getting their duck in a row  and some good airliners are coming, we have now move the goal post to MS is going to stop streaming scenery so don't buy MSFS ? Am I understanding this wrong ?

1 minute ago, fogboundturtle said:

So now that MSFS is getting their duck in a row  and some good airliners are coming, we have now move the goal post to MS is going to stop streaming scenery so don't buy MSFS ? Am I understanding this wrong ?

Yes, you are.

9 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

So now that MSFS is getting their duck in a row  and some good airliners are coming, we have now move the goal post to MS is going to stop streaming scenery so don't buy MSFS ? Am I understanding this wrong ?

Bad times to be a hater. 😄

12 minutes ago, tweekz said:

Bad times to be a hater. 😄

Exactly. 

46 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

So now that MSFS is getting their duck in a row  and some good airliners are coming, we have now move the goal post to MS is going to stop streaming scenery so don't buy MSFS ? Am I understanding this wrong ?

What I've learned in many years working in IT and being interested in gaming is that people don't like and don't trust MS.  It isn't just gaming, but their business stuff to.

Where I work we were evaluating software, and often we're already paying for MS options through our corporate agreement.  This means we can use these products at no additional cost, and yet we don't even evaluate them and instantly jump to a competitor, even if that means paying.  Think about that - we won't even take a little time to evaluate something that is essentially free. 

It has been like this for as long as I can remember, and honestly I don't even know where it started.  I know MS has made some big mis-steps along the way, but nothing more than any of the other big players in the industry. 

I don't say this to attack or invalidate anyone's opinion, it isn't even directed at anyone here.  Like I said, it goes way, way beyond just MSFS, or just their gaming division.  I think it is like when a single sports team gets too dominant for too long and everyone just starts to boo them out of habit. 

43 minutes ago, kerosene31 said:

What I've learned in many years working in IT and being interested in gaming is that people don't like and don't trust MS.  It isn't just gaming, but their business stuff to.

Where I work we were evaluating software, and often we're already paying for MS options through our corporate agreement.  This means we can use these products at no additional cost, and yet we don't even evaluate them and instantly jump to a competitor, even if that means paying.  Think about that - we won't even take a little time to evaluate something that is essentially free. 

It has been like this for as long as I can remember, and honestly I don't even know where it started.  I know MS has made some big mis-steps along the way, but nothing more than any of the other big players in the industry. 

I don't say this to attack or invalidate anyone's opinion, it isn't even directed at anyone here.  Like I said, it goes way, way beyond just MSFS, or just their gaming division.  I think it is like when a single sports team gets too dominant for too long and everyone just starts to boo them out of habit. 

I agree with you that people are hesitant about Microsoft.  After all, it was Microsoft that disbanded Aces Studios after FSX was completed.  At the same time though, I feel that the companies that picked up where Microsoft left off - Lockheed Martin and Laminar Research - got a little complacent in the last 10 years.  In fact, LM and LR got so complacent with P3D and X-Plane, they let the technology outrun their simulators.  There was very little innovation and very little advancement in the last 10 years of flight simulation.

Because there was so little advancement, Microsoft & Asobo saw an opening in the home consumer flight simulation market. A gigantic opening, mind you.  And they exploited this opening.

There were two areas of technology that LM and LR largely ignored in the last 10 years - modern graphics, and the streaming of satellite/photogrammetry data for the entire world.  And this is what Microsoft & Asobo exploited.  This thread itself is about the streaming of satellite/photogrammetry data - it was always there to be implemented for flight simulation, but it was just ignored.

There should never have been this opening for Microsoft & Asobo. X-Plane and P3D should have been so on top of the graphics, and so on top of the streaming of satellite/photogrammetry data for the entire world for their simulators, that Microsoft & Asobo would have looked at the competition and said, "nah, the competition is too high, let's find another project where we can make a lot of $$$."  Instead, Microsoft & Asobo said, "Look at those two flight simulators that are using 10 years old technology.  Let's make MSFS and show them what a modern flight simulator should look like in 2020, and where user of the flight simulator doesn't have to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars to make the flight sim look good!"

So while I'm not happy about what Microsoft did over 10 years ago when they disbanded Aces Studios, I am also happy that Microsoft has brought flight simulation to the 2020s. I feel like Microsoft saved me 10 years worth of time (and also saved me a lot of $$$ because I don't have to get all those add-ons to make my flight sim look good, plus the cost of an extra hard drive to store GBs of ortho).  Because at the pace P3D and X-Plane were improving, it could be another 10 years before P3D and X-Plane had the same graphics as MSFS today and actually streamed satellite/photogrammetry for the entire world.

 

Edited July 14, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

Sat imagery is evolving rapidly . Satellites are getting cheaper which means many more of them in space, specially low orbit constellation and then more frequent updating (therefore seasonality) and better resolution. Add to add the complementary extensive use of drones for high resolution cartography. 

 I wouldn't mind a premium service by subscription for my flight simulator with this new imagery. Maybe for the next iteration...

 

 

2 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Sat imagery is evolving rapidly . Satellites are getting cheaper which means many more of them in space, specially low orbit constellation and then more frequent updating (therefore seasonality) and better resolution. Add to add the complementary extensive use of drones for high resolution cartography. 

I would just like a couple of passes over Australia within the next ten years so we can update the very outdated Australian scenery.

Speaking of outdated ... why is that Microsoft with all its technical resources, takes 17 minutes to find out if there are any updates when I load MSFS?

Regards

Tony