37 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Austin treats flight simulation like the research project it should be, the proper noun for what he does is lecturing

In his case free lectures for those who are interested in the cutting edge of flight simulator engineering.

Ive had better lecturers Ive had worse.

If you or anyone else are not interested in the science behind what makes xplane tick you dont have to listen to his lectures to enjoy xplane, what makes you think that causes harm? These are not solved problems (just ask Boeing).

It's just I thought it was going to be an announcement about XP12. Not another lecture. Bad marketing. Most people will just turn it off. At least I did when he started droning on again. And it started so well...

Edited September 29, 20214 yr by jarmstro

41 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's just I thought it was going to be an announcement about XP12. Not another lecture. Bad marketing. Most people will just turn it off. At least I did when he started droning on again. And it started so well...

It was their "xp12 expose". The only difference between what Austin did and

Is the xplane one will work as described, rather than just a description of what would have been nice if they had had a clue how to do it.

Its also only tangentially connected to marketing, dont know if you noticed but LR dont have much of a marketing budget, they rather go for organic growth building the best product they can.

Edited September 29, 20214 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

The point is that when I buy a microwave oven or whatever I don't expect it's manufacturer to bore me to death lecturing  me on the intricacies of its inner workings. 

Maybe you can help me, and maybe the rest of us, to understand.  

You haven't bought anything yet.  

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

It's just I thought it was going to be an announcement about XP12.

It is.  Would you rather they just make a video saying, "XP12 is coming", and end the video?  Or would you like it to be a little bit longer with just snippets of XP12, without narration and what is being shown?

 

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

Not another lecture. Bad marketing. Most people will just turn it off.

It's a youtube video, not a lecture in a speaking venue.  You have the option to skip to different sections, or even close the tab, if you find anything "boring".  I don't know how you know that "most people" will turn it off.  Do you know these "most" people?

It's safe to say that there are others who find LR's description of things, interesting.  They want to know what has gone into it, and the geeks among us want to know the intricacies.

 

You make some very unusual, sometimes line crossing posts, John.  And then you try to either cover it up by saying it was a joke, or you simply don't respond.  Example.  When you claim that  anyone with DRM in their software is accusing all their customers of thievery.  

I don't understand the problem you have with choice.  If you find a video boring, choose to turn it off.  If you hate DRM, don't buy the software.  Although, I don't know any software without DRM.

Take the video for what it is. A presentation into what's coming in X-Plane 12.  And that the presentation is being made by people who actually know what they're talking about.  Programmers, artists, pilots and engineers.

If it's boring, close the tab.

It's not rocket science.

14 hours ago, mSparks said:

has anyone actually managed that yet? 

I dont mean "grass that kinda looks like grass if you squint and look side ways"

I mean an actual field that believability looks like a field.

AC Valhalla does this pretty well.

Unfortunately XP12 developers don't have the skills to bring realistic graphics including procedural grass. Nothing stopping them from what I said all along. Hire new talent to get the job done. Well they are going to pay the price.

36 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Unfortunately XP12 developers don't have the skills to bring realistic graphics including procedural grass. Nothing stopping them from what I said all along. Hire new talent to get the job done. Well they are going to pay the price.

why don't you join them ?

56 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

AC Valhalla does this pretty well.

So does Arma

51 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Unfortunately XP12 developers don't have the skills to bring realistic graphics including procedural grass. Nothing stopping them from what I said all along. Hire new talent to get the job done. Well they are going to pay the price.

Maybe they have added grass, but haven't shown it yet.  Maybe the grass is further down the list of importance than other things regarding scenery.  Maybe the scenery artists are working on further improving the autogen.  It'd be rather foolish and unprofessional to work on the grass first, and then the rest of the autogen.

After claiming to be a developer, I thought you would have known all of this.  I don't even do scenery, but I know the importance of prioritizing.

Rest assured, we're all here to address any concerns you might have.

😉

 

 

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by GoranM

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

You make some very unusual, sometimes line crossing posts, John.  And then you try to either cover it up by saying it was a joke, or you simply don't respond.  Example.  When you claim that  anyone with DRM in their software is accusing all their customers of thievery.  

I did not say that specifically about DRM Goran. I said everywhere we are accused of being thieves by proxy. I was making general point about modern life! Or rather the way I see it. We are all constantly surveilled by CCT, our every movement is tracked, everything we write is recorded and our PCs and phones are riddled with spyware all in the name of our own good. But it's not that at all. It's because of mistrust and control. And as some one who has always been lawful and truthful I strongly object to it all. 

As for covering my tracks. Not at all. (I made a promise to myself a long while ago when the world started to go mad to speak my mind openly without fear or favour. If some people take 'offence' so be it.)

So with regard to this video it breaks a golden rule of business. Give the customer what they want not what you think they ought to have. Meyer is a bore.

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by jarmstro

5 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I did not say that specifically about DRM Goran. I said everywhere we are accused of being thieves by proxy. 

(Mods...the following is about DRM and piracy.  Delete if you must, but it's an explanation.)

John, I explained why developers are using DRM, and your response was...

"We are everywhere all accused of being thieves."

To me, that appears as though you're assuming that I, and everyone else you purchase a product from, am accusing you of thievery.  Period.  You're not looking at why we need DRM.  Not just developers, but customers, also.  Allow me to explain.

We know the majority of the user base are honest and do the right thing, but every illegal copy of any add on started with a legitimate purchase from a legitimate customer.  

If we don't protect our work, which can take years of 18 hour days, 7 days a week, we run the risk of not earning enough to continue what we are doing.  The outcome?  Customer support will have to stop due to developers being forced to get jobs, and then legitimate customers will be left with an unsupported product.  Not to mention the developer unable to create more add ons for people who love that developers products.  Due to the few dishonest ones, the honest ones have to be punished.  The dishonest ones don't care.  They never paid for it in the first place.  Add to that the fact that DRM costs the developer money.  Some people fail to realize that we have to pay for the privelage of securing our product due to dishonest people.  Whether it's Gizmo or some external software.  

The fact remains that there is a minority who will steal.  No matter what.  Or at least attempt to.  

Again, speaking for myself, I'm not making a blanket accusation against ALL my customers.  I'm asking my customers to understand that, without knowing who are the dishonest ones, we have to cover our bases and implement a DRM to protect our livelihood, protect the customer (the dishonest ones have been known to use other peoples account details to activate a product) and, of course, protect our work.

Making add ons is not easy, and is very time consuming.  

Ask yourself this question.  If you had $50 in your pocket, and someone snatched it, would you be upset?  This is precisely what is happening when someone steals just one add on.  Imagine several thousand.

All we're asking is for a little understanding and a tiny bit of inconvenience (in activating a product) before enjoying it to the full.  In Gizmo's case, all it takes is an email and password, and a few mouse clicks.  I honestly don't know how much easier it can be made.

57 minutes ago, GoranM said:

(Mods...the following is about DRM and piracy.  Delete if you must, but it's an explanation.)

John, I explained why developers are using DRM, and your response was...

"We are everywhere all accused of being thieves."

To me, that appears as though you're assuming that I, and everyone else you purchase a product from, am accusing you of thievery.  Period.  You're not looking at why we need DRM.  Not just developers, but customers, also.  Allow me to explain.

We know the majority of the user base are honest and do the right thing, but every illegal copy of any add on started with a legitimate purchase from a legitimate customer.  

If we don't protect our work, which can take years of 18 hour days, 7 days a week, we run the risk of not earning enough to continue what we are doing.  The outcome?  Customer support will have to stop due to developers being forced to get jobs, and then legitimate customers will be left with an unsupported product.  Not to mention the developer unable to create more add ons for people who love that developers products.  Due to the few dishonest ones, the honest ones have to be punished.  The dishonest ones don't care.  They never paid for it in the first place.  Add to that the fact that DRM costs the developer money.  Some people fail to realize that we have to pay for the privelage of securing our product due to dishonest people.  Whether it's Gizmo or some external software.  

The fact remains that there is a minority who will steal.  No matter what.  Or at least attempt to.  

Again, speaking for myself, I'm not making a blanket accusation against ALL my customers.  I'm asking my customers to understand that, without knowing who are the dishonest ones, we have to cover our bases and implement a DRM to protect our livelihood, protect the customer (the dishonest ones have been known to use other peoples account details to activate a product) and, of course, protect our work.

Making add ons is not easy, and is very time consuming.  

Ask yourself this question.  If you had $50 in your pocket, and someone snatched it, would you be upset?  This is precisely what is happening when someone steals just one add on.  Imagine several thousand.

All we're asking is for a little understanding and a tiny bit of inconvenience (in activating a product) before enjoying it to the full.  In Gizmo's case, all it takes is an email and password, and a few mouse clicks.  I honestly don't know how much easier it can be made.

I understand where you are coming from Goran. But my point is that DRM assumes that I might be a thief and by implication I am therefore accused or at least under suspicion. . And that is very offensive whereas a licence key as proof of purchase  is not.  In praise of X-Plane I applaud the fact that it uses a simple licence key as opposed to the convoluted and flawed DRM of MSFS which causes users no end of problems when buying and updating the software even though they have legitimately paid for it. Just check out the boards!!. With regard to Gizmo my guess is that it loses you more sales than you would otherwise lose to piracy compared to the use of a simple licence key. I've just upgraded my cpu/motherboard and when I fire up XP I just know I will have a fight on my hands trying to get Gizmo to work whereas every other addon will be just fine.

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by jarmstro

28 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But my point is that DRM assumes that I might be a thief. And that is very offensive whereas a licence key as proof of purchase  is not. 

You cannot blame developers for that.  Most license keys still need an internet connection to verify its authenticity.  If it was just a matter of a serial key, that required no internet connection, imagine the sharing of that serial.  

I think you're taking this DRM thing way too far.  You're misinterpreting the DRM's intent and purpose, by assuming we're accusing EVERYONE that they MIGHT be a thief.  I've dealt with 12 year olds who pirated my add ons.  I've dealt with ex military personnel.  A developer.  3 streamers.  

Police officers can be considered DRM.  Are you offended if you get one giving you a breath test, because you MIGHT be over the limit?  Are you offended if one pulls you over because you MIGHT have been speeding, but didn't know it?  Are you offended when Microsoft asks you to activate Windows online?  Are you offended when you go to a department store where they install security tags on a t-shirt or a pair of pants?

28 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

In praise of X-Plane I applaud the fact that it uses a simple licence key

That license key is the 1st stage of an online activation.  

28 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

With regard to Gizmo my guess is that it loses you more sales than you would otherwise lose to piracy compared to the use of a simple licence key.

I really wish people would stop telling me this.  Gizmo DRM was penetrated several years ago, and I went from making a living with 2 products, to getting the first available job I could, and on the verge of quitting making add ons.  My earnings went from making an average income, to much less than what the average pensioner would make in the UK.  No one can make everyone happy, all of the time.  There will always be some people who are never satisfied.  Most license keys, these days, go through some kind of online activation.  And the one's that don't, well, let's just say they don't secure the product...at all.

28 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I've just upgraded my cpu/motherboard and when I fire up XP I just know I will have a fight on my hands trying to get Gizmo to work whereas every other addon will be just fine.

Nonsense.

Gizmo requires your email and password, followed by one mouse click on the "OK" button, during the initial install and then once every 6 months (and there's a reason for this, as well).  Hardware upgrades require a freeze on other PC's...by typing the word "FREEZE" next to the PC listed in the activation pop up that is no longer being used.  This is for YOUR security.  The only other activation it does is an auto activation every 2 weeks, and that happens once you load X-Plane.

I'm done talking about DRM, as this thread is about the keynote for XP12.  I've explained how Gizmo DRM works.  I've explained why developers need DRM, and there isn't a single payware developer who doesn't use it.  Serial keys that don't use online activation can be exploited far too easily, and they are rarely, if ever used.

Ultimately, the choice is yours.  Absolutely no one is holding a gun to your head.  And if you ever need help with activation, I'm more than happy to help.

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by GoranM

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

But my point is that DRM assumes that I might be a thief and by implication I am therefore accused or at least under suspicion

It does not, thats just the way you take it, we all hate it but the world is what it is. Certainly no one is accusing you of anything so why do you feel that way.

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Give the customer what they want not what you think they ought to have.

Maybe you should stop using windows,???

9 hours ago, Murmur said:

Other promising news. Ben indirectly confirmed that in all the footage we've seen, there was a mix of both legacy and new features. And that the cloud draw distance is at least 250 km, so basically up to the horizon:

Ben Supnik says:

September 29, 2021 at 3:42 pm

A lot of the expo footage was NOT the new cloud system – since we don’t have every feature in one master branch right now (mostly it’s the weather system still being worked on).

The thunderstorm should go to the horizon if it really is “Everywhere” – if it’s localized to a region you’ll see past it. But with at least 250 km of draw distance in any direction, horizon coverage should be really good.

Another positive thing I read from this, only the weather still needing some work while all the rest of the new features are likely ready to go into the next phase, being the private beta for developers.