17 minutes ago, mwilk said:

Isn't Asobo the software developer and Microsoft the publisher?

They Asobo are paid workers not the title holder they are paid by MS to produce a MS product they answer to MS first and not the end user. They may solve PMDG's problems on their own but they still need to check in with the BIG BOYS at MS when people finally come to the reality that MS is the one controlling this piece of software the better they can feel about it and at this point its all about XBOX first and P.C. last. Show them (MS) the money and they may listen and that includes any 3pd out there.

Edited December 24, 20214 yr by jbdbow1970

2 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

They Asobo are paid workers not the title holder they are paid by MS to produce a MS product they answer to MS first and not the end user. They may solve PMDG's problems on their own but they still need to check in with the BIG BOYS at MS when people finally come to the reality that MS is the one controlling this piece of software the better they can feel about it and at this point its all about XBOX first and P.C. last. Show them (MS) the money and they may listen and that includes any 3pd out there.

Most of this is true. But! I doubt MS is checking in all the time about the SDK and what state it needs to be in with 3PD’s. They are the publisher and sure, the overall “boss”. But from having experience in this kind of thing, MS doesn’t have them on some sort of leash. They obviously have faith in their developer and to a certain extant, let them make calls on development, especially the SDK. 

48 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Most of this is true. But! I doubt MS is checking in all the time about the SDK and what state it needs to be in with 3PD’s. They are the publisher and sure, the overall “boss”. But from having experience in this kind of thing, MS doesn’t have them on some sort of leash. They obviously have faith in their developer and to a certain extant, let them make calls on development, especially the SDK. 

I think you'd be extremely surprised, then, how tight a leash games publishers tend to hold over a development team. I can't speak for the Microsoft-Asobo relationship, but based on what I know by proxy, I can easily believe that everything Asobo does is directly controlled by the publisher. Ask my brother and you'd hear all kinds of stories, such as a big publisher dictating how many polygons a character model must have on a certain console, despite the fact it couldn't possibly run, and the publisher certainly wouldn't let his dev team use their tools to intelligently alter the level of detail, even though they could do that.

He also rewrote Sony's default libraries for the original PlayStation, and got a game running better for it, but the idea of rewriting them wasn't liked and his code was scrapped in the release version (and didn't run as well).

He's also worked on games for Microsoft.

Edited December 24, 20214 yr by March Hare

You guys are making this complicated.  It’s Jorg from Microsoft who oversees all the work at Asobo.  That’s why Jorg is implanted at Asobo.

Microsoft does not check in every day on Asobo’s progress.  That’s what Jorg is for..  Jorg’s entire role is to represent Microsoft’s interests at Asobo.

Edited December 25, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

18 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

Don't point fingers at Asobo perhaps more at MS it may get us somewhere faster afterall the title is called Microsoft Flight Simulator not Asobo Simulator.

How am I pointing fingers? I'm not blaming anyone, it was merely a remark that PMDG didn't talk about whether the things they're waiting for were addressed, which I find interesting. I've been saying since day one that it's Microsoft that make decisions, not Asobo, but ultimately it's Asobo who would address these items, as in implement them.

5 hours ago, threegreen said:

How am I pointing fingers? I'm not blaming anyone, it was merely a remark that PMDG didn't talk about whether the things they're waiting for were addressed, which I find interesting. I've been saying since day one that it's Microsoft that make decisions, not Asobo, but ultimately it's Asobo who would address these items, as in implement them.

Actually, they did.  They said they have not been addressed yet.  That's the reason why they pulled their estimate of the release date.

Interestingly, at about the same time is when FENIX backed off their going into beta estimate also.

Edited December 25, 20214 yr by Jeff Nielsen

My impression of PMDG's communications this year is a cycle of "everything is going great, what a wonderful simulator, and an outstanding developer, and the 737 for MSFS will be released soon" to "there are some show stopping problems with the simulator we don't know how to get around and the developer is slow to answer us so we are pushing back the release." Really, I wish they would just be silent until it is basically done and then bring us up to speed -- but on the other hand I guess the periodic updates give us something to talk about on the forums for a few days. 

Edited December 25, 20214 yr by Cognita

9 hours ago, Cognita said:

My impression of PMDG's communications this year is a cycle of "everything is going great, what a wonderful simulator, and an outstanding developer, and the 737 for MSFS will be released soon" to "there are some show stopping problems with the simulator we don't know how to get around and the developer is slow to answer us so we are pushing back the release." Really, I wish they would just be silent until it is basically done and then bring us up to speed -- but on the other hand I guess the periodic updates give us something to talk about on the forums for a few days. 

Admittedly, I agree with this and I don't think we are alone. I feel like most of the community is starting to catch onto these "hot and cold" posts. I've been a customer of PMDG since 2004 and I absolutely love their products, but I really wish we would get a straight answer. I also wish we could see more than just simple pictures of the cockpit. I'd like to see a video of the FMC in action for instance or other parts of the sim working. For me personally, the communications this year from PMDG have soured my opinion about how things are really going behind the curtain. Part of me is still concerned when reading between the lines that we will receive an inferior product compared to p3d and that's hard to choke down. With that said, I don't want to be a "llama drama" and stir up any arguments, but I wanted to reply and say that I agree with you about the back and forth.... unfortunately there hasn't been a ton of consistency between his regular posts. Then again, maybe there's an agenda behind each one. Hard to tell.  

Edited December 26, 20214 yr by Keirtt

4 hours ago, Keirtt said:

Then again, maybe there's an agenda behind each one. Hard to tell.  

You are too complicated, my friend 😉. If you have had any complex project to work on, in real life, you know that you go through ups and downs, sometimes feeling that you  breeze forward, sometimes frustrations to hit a snag. And your beloved half see you optimistic one day and aggravated another day. Same here.  PMDG to keep a marketing momentum, shares its project diary so to speak. I find it rather interesting.

56 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I find it rather interesting.

We also need to be consistent ourselves, if they don't communicate, we scream at them, and if they do, we don't like what they say... There comes a day when we have to admit that reality may not necessarily meet our dreams.

Just now, Bernard Ducret said:

  reality may not necessarily meet our dreams.

We are half way there ! MSFS is sort of the dream I had flying  its ancestor in the early 80s.

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

MSFS is sort of the dream I had flying  its ancestor in the early 80s

I have been saying literally that exact thing since I first saw MSFS. When I first started with flight sims 30ish years ago this is where I imagined it could go one day. I thought it would take a little longer though.

6 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

You are too complicated, my friend 😉. If you have had any complex project to work on, in real life, you know that you go through ups and downs, sometimes feeling that you  breeze forward, sometimes frustrations to hit a snag. And your beloved half see you optimistic one day and aggravated another day. Same here.  PMDG to keep a marketing momentum, shares its project diary so to speak. I find it rather interesting.

Fortunately, I can say I’ve been involved in several large, multi-million dollar government projects, and will completely agree with you about the ups and downs. However, I don’t think anyones being overly complicated by pointing out the obvious and that’s what I previously said about the cold and hot. When I referenced a “hidden agenda”, I was implying more that PMDG may be using their platform to push Asobo/Microsoft along and using the community as the force (which I see nothing wrong with). To make things appear less complicated, I’ll simply say (and have said in other posts) that when posts are made that share this hot/cold tone, you have to expect the community will interpret things their own way. With that said; I don’t want any of this to come off as someone who doesn’t support or appreciate the work PMDG does. Simply an observation as many others have made.

19 minutes ago, Keirtt said:

 Simply an observation as many others have made.

That PMDG is ever so sightly manipulative and tries to influence MS  through its customer base has crossed my mind too 😄. But if this is the case, they are overly optimistic. I think that Spencer and Neumann are deaf to users, contrary to the common wisdom on this forum, except when they face a real problem impacting sales (cf. SU5). They  have a plan which focuses Asobo on releasing their own material , including their wretched SU, and wont budge from it  to accomodate PMDG.  Asobo puts its resources where it is said to and this is 12 updates in 2022 plus maybe some DLC.

But as an user, I am glad that PMDG keeps us in the loop as I don't see anything that hurt us. It is on the contrary a way to feel the 3PD environment .  Historically, we know that PMDG delivers at the end of the day. 

Edited December 26, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

11 hours ago, Keirtt said:

Part of me is still concerned when reading between the lines that we will receive an inferior product compared to p3d and that's hard to choke down.

Well let's see what's might be missing to make it inferior:

1. Doors--will they open and close and be identifiable in the FMC?  Can't imagine why not.
2. Navigation--will we be able to input a route, import a route from the World Planner, load Navigraph data, then fly along our intended route?  Sure, already do this in default planes.
3. Configurable options for initial startup state?  As everyone who's ever used a PMDG airliner w/ an FMC, a good 90% of the myriad settings in the FMC's aircraft configuration pages are used once, then never touched again, and many are viewed and never touched.  I'm speaking from my own use only of course.  Many of those settings are not particularly relevant but nice to have.  Will some be missing?  Probably, but perhaps that also will be part of the justification for a lower price tag.
4. Flight model?  The flight model in the default airliners is hardly a lot different from PMDG flight models in P3D, at least that's my take having used the latter for zillions of hours.  So I don't expect anything particularly inferior in this area.
5. Graphically?  Guaranteed to be far superior in MSFS than P3D, at least the version of NGXu/777 in v 4.5
6. Ground steering via tiller?  I already do this, more or less, in the default B787X, using an old Cessna Trim Wheel and it functions virtually identically to the NGXu, except it doesn't stop functioning at 20kts.

So what else might be compromised in meaningful ways?  There may well be, I'm just having trouble imagining what they are!  It's been a while since I flew the PMDG birds.