7 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Not upset per se, just disappointed that they created unrealistic expectations of what their new flight sim platform could do from the outset. Not to mention that I feel that MS over-promise and under-deliver at each and every major update so far.

But that is part of my point, if the exodus is still continuing, it's of people who now know what MSFS is like and still choose to switch.

When PMDG release the NG3 provided it is on par with the NGXu this debate will be over. I'm putting whats left on my money on MSFS to deliver a study level aircraft friendly sim. I spent most of my money on scenery weather and visual enhancement addon for P3D.😅

9 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

if the exodus is still continuing

It's really not. Regular MSFS user numbers have fallen. There was a graph somewhere over on an MSFS thread last month.

I expect to see a surge of activity with the release of PMDG's 737-700, followed by activity levels dropping again within a couple of months.
The base sim will still have too many annoyances to make it truly enjoyable, although I'd like to be proved wrong on this.

  

2 minutes ago, FBW737 said:

the NG3 provided it is on par with the NGXu this debate will be over

Given the issues that PMDG have been loudly publicising of late and the way aircraft handle currently in MSFS, that really isn't guaranteed.

 

I'm still buying P3D add-ons rather than MSFS ones. If developers continue/restart products for my flight sim of choice, they will have a market for them.
 

Edited January 25, 20224 yr by F737NG

What will drive people mad is once the PMDG airplane is released on MSFS, the chances of their Sim Updates breaking it are probably pretty good. The hate in the forums will be like a raging fire. 

18 minutes ago, B777ER said:

What will drive people mad is once the PMDG airplane is released on MSFS, the chances of their Sim Updates breaking it are probably pretty good. The hate in the forums will be like a raging fire. 

 

21 minutes ago, F737NG said:

I'm still buying P3D add-ons rather than MSFS ones. If developers continue/restart products for my flight sim of choice, they will have a market for them.

I'll be sticking to P3D for the time being for similar reasons. I don't expect I'll move to MSFS until the update-regime is more stable. And who knows how long that'll be. I'll happily continue buying what P3D content there is during that time. With the MD11 and Concorde still on the horizon I haven't much incentive to move over.

One hopes that Airport Scenery development for P3D at least will pick up again during that time, even if it's just improvements of existing titles.

Edited January 25, 20224 yr by SimeonWilbury

1 hour ago, raymie said:

If memory serves me correctly and sometimes it does not, the installers for the Bobcat and the Twin Comanche were made compatible for P3D v.5 but not the C310 Redux. I was able to install the 310R into P3D v. 5.1 and it for the most part worked fine. The only thing that was problematic was no cockpit and instrument lighting so no night flights. That is the same situation for both the Bobcat and "Twinkie" as well. The Milviz "MVAMS" does not work for P3D v. 5, so with that I probably will pass on their sale. 

I was able to get the 310R Glass features and lights working including dimming by using the TFDi Design RealLights and TrueGlass installers from ORBX. Of course you will need a ORBX account. I'm not sure why they show up in ORBX "My Products", but they are there for me. Maybe because they recognized the original installs from Milviz. Do not install TrueGlass and RealLights when prompted with the original 310 installer, use the ORBX ones instead.

Also did you copy the aircraft over, or did you use a registry fix with a dummy P3DV4 registry entry that points to the P3DV5 install location?  This solve a lot of P3DV5 legacy aircraft installation issues including the Realair aircraft. Please note, I went from FSX.SE to P3DV5, not sure what the effects of the this registry fix is if you have both P3DV4 and V5 installed.

Cheers,

John C.

25 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

But that is part of my point, if the exodus is still continuing, it's of people who now know what MSFS is like and still choose to switch.

There's no denying there was an exodus but I think that's over now, if anything there a slow trickle of people returning to P3D from MSFS judging by peoples posts on these forums.

I was in the alpha and beta groups and a fully paid up owner of the premium deluxe package but I no longer have it installed on my sim rig.

I just don't like it, I got tired of the constant updating and just don't like the feel or look of it. 

I know there's literally millions that do, including the guy who works behind the bar in my local pub who has it on his xbox,  but currently I'm not one of them, personal choice that's all, for me P3D and XP11 remain the better choice.

38 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

But that is part of my point, if the exodus is still continuing, it's of people who now know what MSFS is like and still choose to switch.

I can see why you might think that. I suspect that it is more likely that many folks are still just following the "Herd" right now because it is just human nature to to seek safety in numbers. They tend to make easy targets for well oiled marketing planners. At some point the "herd" will realize that MS is approaching half way thru their planned "10 year dev cycle" with what appears to be not much forward progress and that may be when the stampede starts.

34 minutes ago, F737NG said:

 
 

 Not upset per se

 

Interesting thoughts that I partly share. Lets go further.

I fly exclusively MSFS these days but I am no blind cultist 🤣. I agree with you that MS hype  borders dishonesty but, at the end of the day, this sim with all its flaws, brings me another experience in simming that I had not had before. Something like what I was dreaming of when simming in the early 80s. For my need, with a good aircraft, and there are some (PMDG, Milviz and a couple of indies), it is a good sim for me. 

Will it mature ? My feeling is that the grand 10-year development plan is snake oil (blasphemy !). I am afraid that the driving force is not its betterment  but a tight (and insane) schedule of releases (DLC and updates) to keep the interest of the market up. If the sim matures it will be through 3PD addons for the PC.  And, to come back to the OP, as I said earlier, Milviz brings a lot of perspective in this regard.  

51 minutes ago, F737NG said:

While it's the customers flocking to the new sim and abandoning P3D products, there's not a lot to entice them to stay or return.   

Why would a developer work for a market  which has become insignificant ? Most of  the major dev say that.  Then the next question is, who has abandoned who ? Hasn't LM in a way abandoned us by rehashing P3D, version after version ?  This Avsim P3D forum community loves to repeat ad nauseam that the consumers market is not the main business target of LM anyway. Can you complain when the users agree and leave ?

Colin Pearson says in the stream that it will be attentive to what LM could offer in v6. I liked it because this is something I have been saying too. A sim is not a church. If LM brings something better than MSFS I'll go for it !

 Oh yes, a last thing, and I put in the same bag those who disparage P3D and those who disparage MSFS without having even tried it. Weak-minded folks.

I will say I enjoyed watching this milviz video.  I'd never really heard them speak.  I appreciated the direct and to the point commentary.  It was enjoyable to watch.  

1 minute ago, micstatic said:

I will say I enjoyed watching this milviz video.  I'd never really heard them speak.  I appreciated the direct and to the point commentary.  It was enjoyable to watch.  

Colin P is, most the time, very defensive in forums. It is good to see another face of him. Relaxed and funny.

Rob_Aincough makes all good points as usual above. MS may end up taking themselves down in the long run if that Board meeting happens again pulling the plug on this project just like it has done in the past with Flight and FSX. I was just thinking that it would be funny if X-Pain ends up being the real top dog and winner of the great MS Flight Sim goat rope. That might be a good wager if you are so inclined LOL!

1 minute ago, shivers9 said:

Rob_Aincough makes all good points as usual above. MS may end up taking themselves down in the long run if that Board meeting happens again pulling the plug on this project just like it has done in the past with Flight and FSX. I was just thinking that it would be funny if X-Pain ends up being the real top dog and winner of the great MS Flight Sim goat rope. That might be a good wager if you are so inclined LOL!

so many people would lose their mind here if that happens.  would be akin to reading PMDG to cut Boeing products and focus on the Cessna 172/182.  

7 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I was just thinking that it would be funny if X-Pain ends up being the real top dog and winner of the great MS Flight Sim goat rope

I personally think that's the way this is going to go. The recent hot start challenger really shows what can be achieved in XP and hopefully points to the future of the platform.

I wish them well, really. I think they develop good products but I personally would think it thrice before giving money again to Milviz.

We have all heard it from Aerosoft, PMDG, etc etc etc:  the market for P3D add-ons is dead. My only beef with them (and also PMDG who are walking that path as well) is the broken promises and lack of commitment to deliver. This happened even before the MSFS "boom" was here.  

How many times did Milviz mention the C310 Redux, the Beaver (among others) were going to be updated for P3Dv5? And time just went by and they did nothing. Then MSFS happened and things were even less attractive, I get it. PMDG? Same thing... DC-6 for P3Dv5? Nope. New version of the 777 VC as something that was supposed to be in their 200ER? All broken promises.

I know we P3D users are now less relevant than we've ever been in the past... but I will not forget the fact that I've bought some products just to support companies such as Milviz and PMDG (among many others, you know who you are) that ended up leaving us customers behind. Let's hope PMDG eventually delivers the AFDS/LNAV/Navdata format update, but I'm not counting on that. 

If these "established brands" perform as they have, what are we to expect from other smaller studios and add-on developers?

MSFS looks really good, I give you that ... but to me it stops at that: looks. Like Jon, I have also uninstalled it (and for the same reasons). I admit MSFS leaves a sort of sweet and sour flavor in my mouth. It's good to have new energy injected into our niche hobby, but the product as of today has so many flaws and limitations that I really lament the damage it has caused to those of us who use a flight simulator for things that go beyond pretty visuals.

Our already niche market imploded and I'm not sure how long it will be until it recovers - if at all. I am also an X-Plane user and one thing I like from XP add-on developers is that they tend to stick to X-Plane and will rarely attempt cross-simulator conversions of complex add-ons. Those who have tried, such as Milviz failed. PDMG for some reason abandoned the users who bought their DC-6 for XP10 and also quit. Companies such as Just Planes are rare exceptions to that rule, they deliver solid products and I will continue to support them as P3D and XP developers. Others such as TFDI, FSLabs and iFly (whose 737 I will purchase now that 5.3 HF2 is out and flyable for me again - and I own the NGXu) will continue to see my business. 

So, Milviz... I sincerely wish you the very best as you are a skilled bunch, no doubt. But as a customer I feel disappointed. 

Rant over...

-E

Edited January 25, 20224 yr by evaamo