16 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

Xbox isn’t holding the sim back except where security is concerned.

Actually their answer to the question of higher resolution idents? for ground assets was that the main issue is fitting the details in the memory of the Xbox s. Since it has only 8gb,this is definitely holding at least stock assets back. 

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by OneOfMany

2 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

Q: Can we expect the team to continue to expand the capabilities of the SDK and allow for add-ons like the Hot Start Challenger 650 in X-Plane?
A: We don't see the capabilities of this add-on being possible in MSFS for the foreseeable future, but it doesn't mean they will never be implemented.

 

This reply really bothers me if it means what I think it means. They've said over and over they're making a Simulator for Simmers. 

The HotStart Challenger is a superb piece of work. Unfortunately it is let down by the graphics of XP11. The FBO, for instance, reminds me of a scene from Half Life 2 but even more sinister because there are no people.

No matter how complex the aircraft it can't make up for X-Planes dire visuals which are, frankly, embarrassing. Maybe that will change with XP12 but for now I will do without the Challenger in favour of the graphical feast that MSFS offers.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by jarmstro

57 minutes ago, OneOfMany said:

Actually their answer to the question of higher resolution idents? for ground assets was that the main issue is fitting the details in the memory of the Xbox s. Since it has only 8gb,this is definitely holding at least stock assets back. 

Tuskin38 seems to miss/disregard those parts of the development discussions.

Extrapolate that notion to other important aspects of the sim ie: aircraft systems/displays, weather, traffic, ATC etc, etc  and it's readily apparent that if features do not fit into the xbox footprint - pc won't be getting it either - despite pc CPU/GPU hardware being well more advanced and, yet another round of improvements are slated to release later this year.   Hardware is supposed to drive software.  

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by irocx

3 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

Q: Can we expect the team to continue to expand the capabilities of the SDK and allow for add-ons like the Hot Start Challenger 650 in X-Plane?
A: We don't see the capabilities of this add-on being possible in MSFS for the foreseeable future, but it doesn't mean they will never be implemented.

 

This reply really bothers me if it means what I think it means. They've said over and over they're making a Simulator for Simmers. 

1) Emphasis could be from within the engine, but nothing to prevent people doing it from outside.

2) Was XP11 not a simulator for simmers before the Hot Start Challenger was released?

2 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

It is a bit harsh. There's lots of work to be done on the weather and the clouds. I wish the old clouds would come back. But, the default weather in this sim blows away any other. 

Mixed feelings about this as I do think harsh criticism of the changes to the clouds is warranted. There wasn’t a huge amount of variety in the forms before SU7 but now there’s none, just cumuli everywhere. Clouds are the most visual part of the weather, so pretty important…

OTOH it does mean they’re at least aware of the criticism and hopefully motivated to act on it.

5 hours ago, irocx said:

It means that until and unless Microsoft decides to split the code base between PC and Xbox, this "sim" will never reach it's full potential - ever.  

 

It has been clear since SU 5 and Lionel Fuentes interview to Digital Foundry. Willing to make the sim compatible with the  S Box is nonsense if they want to develop a simmer’s sim. 

And the candid answer about the HS Challenger could be a good indication of what the developers  really think the MS strategy is for this product… 

6 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

since the camera system is revamped and completely different to FSX

the convoluted camera system makes the back and forth between the three external and the cockpit modes a mess and before opening API they could make it leaner and bug free…

6 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

We think the way users describe the weather system is a bit harsh.

So they think that the user is wrong. A good start 🤣.

Seriously, the weather engine is not bad at all IMHO  and I don’t think that opening to 3rd party is the solution, at this stage, but opening a true debate with the simmers might be. There are a few problems with the cloud light rendering (ashen clouds, transparent clouds), the cloud variety, the  lack of historical weather over even a day which if addressed would make this sim truly shine.

                                    

Thanks for @ChaoticBeauty for his unbiased summary. Appreciated.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

Can someone explain the context on the  HS Challenger  thing?  For someone who don't know what's up. 

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by Gelrd

6 hours ago, irocx said:

I think Jorg belched into his mouth a little after hearing this answer regarding a competitor sim's capabilities.

It means that until and unless Microsoft decides to split the code base between PC and Xbox, this "sim" will never reach it's full potential - ever. 

 

The code base is already split between PC and XBox.  For starters, PC has various toggles that XBox doesn't, such as the offscreen terrain pre cache slider.  My understanding is that there are also various other sliders that are available on PC that are not available to be used on XBox.

Plus Microsoft/Asobo said they have started work on DLSS for Nvidia card owners of MSFS on PC. From my understanding, DLSS does not work on XBox (although I read Microsoft was working on a DLSS equivalent, but technically, it's still not the same as DLSS).

In addition, replay in Dev Mode is currently only available for PC. It's not available for X-Box.

So your phrasing "unless" is completely wrong. The code base is already split between PC and XBox.

Regarding the use of higher resolution being held back because of XBox's 8 GB of memory, it's probably because it's not a high priority at the moment, and the lower end PCs running MSFS are still using 8 GB of RAM anyways,  After 3 or 4 years down the road, when the lower end PCs are all using 16 GB of RAM, and we tell Microsoft/Asobo we want higher resolution, I'm sure they may consider implementing it then. At the moment, it's just not a high priority and it's not something community is strongly demanding, unlike DLSS which the PC community strongly upvoted and asked Microsoft/Asobo to implement.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

4 hours ago, OneOfMany said:

Actually their answer to the question of higher resolution idents? for ground assets was that the main issue is fitting the details in the memory of the Xbox s. Since it has only 8gb,this is definitely holding at least stock assets back. 

If you want a change to this, then create a topic and get it upvoted.  Microsoft/Asobo are willing to implement features just for PC, that Xbox will never get.  However, the scale of work and resources need to be taken into account because if the scale of work is high and it will require a large number of resources, that may be the only reason that they won't do it immediately.

But Microsoft/Asobo are willing to implement PC only features, if the scale of work and amount of resources required is reasonable.  DLSS is a perfect example of this. The PC community asked for DLSS, Microsoft/Asobo looked into it and decided the amount of resources needed to implement it was reasonable, and now DLSS is on the list of tasks they will implement within the next 2 years.

Another example is replay.  Replay only works for PC at the moment (replay in Dev Mode).  There is no replay for X-Box. Again, the PC community upvoted the replay topic and made Microsoft/Asobo aware that we really wanted replay. So they gave us replay for PC.  X-Box did not get replay because as Microsoft/Asobo said, X-Box does not have enough resources to run replay (but they are working on a solution so X-Box can get replay, I think).

They aren't going to do every feature we want for PC.  The PC community needs to pick and choose what they want as the priority. DLSS was upvoted as a priority by the PC community.  Replay was also upvoted and PC got replay while X-Box didn't.  Resolution idents?  I have never even heard of this requested until today, and I have not seen a highly upvoted topic on resolution idents either.  Of course they aren't going to do it, if you can't even start a topic on it and get it upvoted to a top 10 wishlist item.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

This whole SDK show pointed out how Xbox is the limiting factor in making this sim the best it can be. There is much potential but we will always be limited by what the console can and is allowed to do.

Quote

Q: Will there be any provisions for higher resolution ground textures or decals (for markings, painted lines, manhole covers etc.)?
A: High-resolution textures is a constant struggle on how to make them fit in memory without performance issues. We are constantly trying to push the limits on this. Maybe the answer will be different in 6 months from now.

 

Quote

Q: Can developers expect to get external camera views into the internal e-cam page? For example, in the A380 there are multiple cameras that are on the exterior of the aircraft and display a signal into the cockpit.
A: It's a no for now because of memory and performance concerns. Part of the Sim Update 5 optimisations was unloading the objects not in view, and this would require keeping everything constantly rendered. It is not comparable to racing games because that is a schematic view of what you're supposed to see, instead of actual rendering. We might change our minds in the future.

These things people have been saying since SU5 only to be told they are wrong. Memory and performance is indeed limited by Xbox and everything that relies on that are stunted.

We had some of these before like higher resolution textures and having everything loaded in RAM to reduce panning stutters.

Why should PC now be the step child having to vote and wish to hopefully change the developer's minds to get them back and improved?

This is all a terrible shame.

20 minutes ago, SubtotalGuide said:

We had some of these before like higher resolution textures and having everything loaded in RAM to reduce panning stutters.

Why should PC now be the step child having to vote and wish to hopefully change the developer's minds to get them back and improved?

This is all a terrible shame.

What are you even talking about?  I don't recall having higher resolution textures before.  And I have been here since the release of MSFS.

When they say, "Part of the Sim Update 5 optimisations was unloading the objects not in view, and this would require keeping everything constantly rendered," this is referring to the off terrain pre-cache slider.  If you set the off terrain pre-cache slider to something below Ultra, it will "unload the objects not in view."  If you set the off terrain pre-cache slider to Ultra, then it will load all the objects, even if they are not in view.

And of course we need to upvote topics so that Microsoft/Asobo knows what the community really wants.  If nobody upvotes "higher resolution idents," of course Microsoft/Asobo isn't going to work on it.  Just because some random dude in the Twitch chat asks for it, doesn't mean they will work on it.  They have a million things to work on, and it's done by priority. If we don't upvote the topic and tell them it's a priority, then of course they won't work on it.

1 hour ago, Gelrd said:

Can someone explain the context on the  HS Challenger  thing?  For someone who don't know what's up. 

I second this. Not going to watch hours of videos about a (probably great) add-on for a simulator I'm not going to use in the forseeable future, just to learn what MSFS is incapable of for now.

So what does the Hotstart Challenger do that other add-ons don't?

As far as add-on aircraft systems depth and fidelity are concerned, all I care about is that MSFS supports PMDG level airliners - probably making the developers jump through some hoops, but still it looks like the SDK is close enough and keeps improving.

 

25 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I don't recall having higher resolution textures before.

Oh not this again, why do some insist on having such short memory? (yes pun intended)

 

25 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

If you set the off terrain pre-cache slider to Ultra, then it will load all the objects, even if they are not in view.

Except it doesn't, certain objects are still unloaded. Even so, why limit the SDK to what Xbox or lower-end hardware can do?

 

25 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

And of course we need to upvote topics so that Microsoft/Asobo knows what the community really wants.

When did we vote to take away these things in the first place? MS takes away and forces us to grovel to get them back.

 

You can't pay me enough to defend these decisions.

35 minutes ago, pstrub said:

I second this. Not going to watch hours of videos about a (probably great) add-on for a simulator I'm not going to use in the forseeable future, just to learn what MSFS is incapable of for now.

So what does the Hotstart Challenger do that other add-ons don't?

As far as add-on aircraft systems depth and fidelity are concerned, all I care about is that MSFS supports PMDG level airliners - probably making the developers jump through some hoops, but still it looks like the SDK is close enough and keeps improving.

 

Pretty much only 2 developers (one engineer one artist) managed to create the highest fidelity and immersive aircraft from the ground up for home simulation in a manner of only 3 years due to the "competition" SDK strength. Meanwhile 4X sized teams like PMDG/FENIX are porting existing systems for almost 2 years now (assuming that MSFS did indeed reach them before an official stable release like it's claimed). PMDG is not even in beta yet. And not the top quality anymore.

I don't think it's about "MSFS can't do any of that" it's more about the time and manpower that it takes to create something like the CL650 for MSFS, the competition SDK is just blazing powerful + easier and this is even before it's newest major version that will include even more features (Including a weather SDK for the new weather and clouds engine 😎)

If you want to know specifically what features it has obviously it's better to revert to the right section instead of ruining another thread here. 

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by mtaxp

The response to the weather question concerns me, if people are upset as it currently is but that's deemed "a bit harsh" then they don't fully understand the problems players are having.

If it's a hot topic, and weather always is in many variations, then they need to take it seriously and not bat it off and play the victim.