7 minutes ago, Adrian123 said:

Oh contrair, MD11 160knt landing speeds. Use to scare the dickens out of me and not much room for error. 🙂

That's what I loved about MD-82 and Q400 especially on an approach like Santos Dumont East RNAV RWY 20.

The most adrenaline pumping butterflies in stomach nervous feeling ever!

32 minutes ago, bendead said:

 

PMDG DC-6 sold well beyond their expectation and it's plane part of a very niche market.

And why is that?   Because they priced it extremely reasonably therefore drawing in all the people who wouldn't have even thought about it at $80+   Never underestimate the amount of people who despite little previous interest will "give it a go" if the price is reasonable.

The MD11 Is a perfect example of this.  If they go with the current "estimate" I wont give it a second look.  Knock a third off that price and instantly it becomes a product that people are willing to try even if they don't think it's their kind of thing.

I had no interest in the DC-6, but when they released it at a very fair price I picked it up day one and i know many others who did exactly the same.

 

The thing that really rubs me up the wrong way is the fact that they think on an $80+ plane,  failures and circuit breakers are something to charge extra for!  That my friends is absolutely taking the word not allowed and has ensured that i will never buy one of their products no matter the price.

19 hours ago, RW1 said:

Anyone remember TFDI took nearly 14 months to cure the CTD when switching views to outside with the 717? Then almost as long to optimize True glass and the lights as well. That's when they lost this customer. Expensive abandonware IMO

This would be my hesitation as well. It did appear that they got things sorted in the end, but it took them a real long time to get there. I don't know if that was a one-off and they have now figured out how to do this right on the 2nd go-around, but it gives one pause.

Spending $80-90 on an add-on that works fully "out of the box" with maybe just a few bugs to fix (a la PMDG, FSL, etc) is one thing...  Having to wait months or years for the product to function properly while they have your money is entirely something else. I am tired of flight sim software developers who treat their paying customers like angel investors to finish their projects.

I could be convinced to spend this much from a developer with a longer track record of quality.  I will personally "wait-and-see" on this one, especially at this price.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by PurdueKev

4 minutes ago, PurdueKev said:

This would be my hesitation as well. It did appear that they got things sorted in the end, but it took them a real long time to get there. I don't know if that was a one-off and they have now figured out how to do this right on the 2nd go-around, but it gives one pause.

Spending $80-90 on an add-on that works fully "out of the box" with maybe just a few bugs to fix (a la PMDG, FSL, etc) is one thing...  Having to wait months or years for the product to function properly while they have your money is entirely something else. I am tired of flight sim software developers who treat their paying customers like angel investors to finish their projects.

I could be convinced to spend this much from a developer with a longer track record of quality.  I will personally "wait-and-see" on this one, especially at this price.

I agree. I see aircraft  that people are buying now, that already need Mods to get them to work properly. If I purchase an aircraft, I want it to work, or the developer to fix it within a short time. To have to rely on a free mod from a 3rd party, to fix it is ridiculous. 

They posted a new message on their Discord about pricing :

I do just want to touch on this, since it might seem like the pricing wasn't clear enough on our website. $119.97 is the price we expect (not fully confirmed) for the passenger, cargo and extended simulation package. This is because there are differences between the passenger and cargo planes (other than model alone) that we need to include. The extended simulation package will include failures and also some circuit breaker functionality (which, personally, I have never heard of a plane having in substantial detail). I hope that kind of explains why the pricing is expected to be where it is. You do not need to get a passenger aircraft if you only want the MD-11F and vice-versa.

Based on what I've seen on their website and discord, I am a bit less enthusiastic 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by bendead

19 hours ago, RW1 said:

Anyone remember TFDI took nearly 14 months to cure the CTD when switching views to outside with the 717? Then almost as long to optimize True glass and the lights as well. That's when they lost this customer. Expensive abandonware IMO

I'm glad you haven't forgotten about that!

I feel it's important these payware devs know that we are infact keeping score and remember certain actions when it comes to customer service and quality control even from past sim platforms.🍻

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by blueshark747

1 hour ago, micstatic said:

There is no evidence to prove that high end add on aircraft will be significantly cheaper in MSFS.  Especially more niche ones like this.  While MSFS may have radically changed the number of people who will buy airports.  I don't think all of a sudden there a ton more pilots looking to learn high end airline models.

I agree that the evidence for cheaper aircraft is scarce since we only have two more complex airliners so far and the developers behind the ones to come have only hinted at prices being lower so far. Nonetheless, TFDi is the first developer to go into the opposite direction and if prices indeed turn out to be noticeably lower than the P3D range, they may well burn their fingers with this estimate. Popular and versatile aircraft like 737s, 777s, A320s etc. that are just as complex - if not more complex - being available for less won't leave much demand for an MD-11 at a higher price I think.

The strategy to price higher with low demand is the complete opposite of basic business economy theory and I dare say it only works as long as you have a guaranteed core of customers that, for whatever reason, will definitely or even need to buy your product. I don't see why anyone would need to buy a flight sim aircraft addon (a company relying on an external product to be able to produce on their own, for example), so that just leaves people that really want to buy an MD-11. These are definitely there, but the ones that will buy this at higher than normal prices are most likely a minority. I would assume that this minority paying high prices isn't going to generate a lot of revenue and profit, especially not in the long term. Instead, I would assume that economies of scale (masses of units sold at low prices) would generate a lot more revenue and profit, especially with the much larger market size around MSFS. Also, with high prices you're likely only going to see a lot of revenue short-term through the core-MD-11-people, but that group will soon be satisfied and the revenue will drop. If you instead go for lower prices, you're also going to attract the people that are not hardcore about the MD-11 and make revenue not only short-term but in the long run also because there will always be someone picking it up, which is most likely not going to happen if the price is a barricade for the 'masses'.

Moreover, airliners are designed to be simple in normal ops and low workload for safety's sake, which means that modern airliners especially aren't actually that hard to fly if you know the basics. The MD-11 has some quirks that make it somewhat different, but that still doesn't differ much from a Boeing or even an Airbus. How complex an aircraft addon is doesn't really matter in this context (except maybe for a few extreme examples) as you still fly the FBW A320 the same way you will fly the Fenix. The difference in complexity only really matters if you're going to simulate abnormals or any kind of specific real world procedure or actually like to study the real world aircraft. Aspects that require some more learning for everyday ops like programming an FMC are not exclusive to high-end addons. This is why I definitely expect many more people to give a complex, reasonably priced aircraft a go with MSFS.

I'm not saying TFDi definitely got their price estimate wrong as I'm obviously only on the outside, but it certainly raises some questions in light of what the general consensus about the MSFS market seems to be.

8 hours ago, threegreen said:

I'm not saying TFDi definitely got their price estimate wrong as I'm obviously only on the outside, but it certainly raises some questions in light of what the general consensus about the MSFS market seems to be.

Your post made me think of this pricing strategy:  Charge a "relatively" cheap price for the base (lets say for example $50) but then charge another $50 if someone wants failures / less-often-modelled systems etc. etc.

I know this has been done before with lite vs. pro models and so forth.  It just seems like for the current market it might be more useful, as it would grab a lot of people at $50, whereas the die-hard MD-11 fans could also have what they want.

I'd pay an extra $30 for a stowaway view. :) :)  Old PMDG MD-11 fans will know what I'm talking about :)

Full disclosure, I have not read all 9 pages of discussion here. That said, we've heard the criticism of our pricing decision and we are not ignoring it. It's really important for us to select a price that is reasonable to both our team, given the years of work required to bring the product to market, and to the customers we expect to purchase it. The market is changing - this is undeniable. We are evaluating options going forward to ensure we put this product out at a fair price. As always, we appreciate your continued interest and support.

13 minutes ago, TurbofanDude said:

Full disclosure, I have not read all 9 pages of discussion here. That said, we've heard the criticism of our pricing decision and we are not ignoring it. It's really important for us to select a price that is reasonable to both our team, given the years of work required to bring the product to market, and to the customers we expect to purchase it. The market is changing - this is undeniable. We are evaluating options going forward to ensure we put this product out at a fair price. As always, we appreciate your continued interest and support.

Thanks! 

In light of recent aircraft addon releases at very competitive price points, I think taking another at the pricing is a good decision.

49 minutes ago, TurbofanDude said:

Full disclosure, I have not read all 9 pages of discussion here. That said, we've heard the criticism of our pricing decision and we are not ignoring it. It's really important for us to select a price that is reasonable to both our team, given the years of work required to bring the product to market, and to the customers we expect to purchase it. The market is changing - this is undeniable. We are evaluating options going forward to ensure we put this product out at a fair price. As always, we appreciate your continued interest and support.

Really appreciated. Hopefully we'll come up with a price that's fair to the devs and the MSFS community.

I hope the days of overpriced addons are finally over and that with the MSFS popularity, addon prices become more affordable without hurting devs' profit.

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by edu2703

54 minutes ago, TurbofanDude said:

Full disclosure, I have not read all 9 pages of discussion here. That said, we've heard the criticism of our pricing decision and we are not ignoring it. It's really important for us to select a price that is reasonable to both our team, given the years of work required to bring the product to market, and to the customers we expect to purchase it. The market is changing - this is undeniable. We are evaluating options going forward to ensure we put this product out at a fair price. As always, we appreciate your continued interest and support.

Hi Collin. I don't know how you have analyzed the market for MSFS, or if you have figured out the demand curve for your TDFi MD-11 in MSFS.  But I suspect the demand curve for your TDFi MD-11 (and other study level airliners) is not a linear demand curve in MSFS, but most likely, a convex demand curve.  It's probably more so a convex demand curve because most MSFS customers are conditioned to $60 USD to $70 USD for a study level airliner now, with the release of the Fenix A320, and PMDG 737 for MSFS.  Because it's a convex demand curve, I think where the slope really starts to flatten out is probably below the $75 USD price point, and thus, I think the number of units you sell will probably double, or triple, if you lower the price by $20 to $30 USD, from your original price of $89.99 USD. 

If Fenix and PMDG have done their homework on the MSFS market, the sweet spot for pricing study level airliners is around the $60 USD to $70 USD in MSFS.  I would argue that is probably where you maximize your total sales, and therefore, total profit. Of course, in MSFS, you will probably sell more units than you would in XP or P3D at most price points, but at the same time, remember that MSFS customers are also conditioned now to expect lower prices.  FYI, I graduated from business school myself, and I am currently running a business, and that's just my two cents when I analyze the MSFS market.

 

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

On 6/2/2022 at 2:40 PM, abrams_tank said:

Hi Collin. I don't know how you have analyzed the market for MSFS, or if you have figured out the demand curve for your TDFi MD-11 in MSFS.  But I suspect the demand curve for your TDFi MD-11 (and other study level airliners) is not a linear demand curve in MSFS, but most likely, a convex demand curve.  It's probably more so a convex demand curve because most MSFS customers are conditioned to $60 USD to $70 USD for a study level airliner now, with the release of the Fenix A320, and PMDG 737 for MSFS.  Because it's a convex demand curve, I think where the slope really starts to flatten out is probably below the $75 USD price point, and thus, I think the number of units you sell will probably double, or triple, if you lower the price by $20 to $30 USD, from your original price of $89.99 USD. 

If Fenix and PMDG have done their homework on the MSFS market, the sweet spot for pricing study level airliners is around the $60 USD to $70 USD in MSFS.  I would argue that is probably where you maximize your total sales, and therefore, total profit. Of course, in MSFS, you will probably sell more units than you would in XP or P3D at most price points, but at the same time, remember that MSFS customers are also conditioned now to expect lower prices.  FYI, I graduated from business school myself, and I am currently running a business, and that's just my two cents when I analyze the MSFS market.

 

Agreed - we undershot the price on the 717 (though, given its... troubled launch, that was probably for the best). The price we initially decided on for the MD-11 would have been fine in the P3D-only market days, but the curve is changing. We'll keep reviewing to make sure we put it at the right price.

I could consider the freighter only for that price IF it is at the level of the Fenix or PMDG systems and graphics / sounds wise. This is top tier pricing (actually the most expensive addon together with the Maddog which did get a bit of flak for it) and I would expect top tier features, not just "aerosoft plus" level of detail. If anything it should blow the old PMDG MD11 out of the water for systems and fly by wire implementation and of course up to date graphics and sounds that take full advantage of the MSFS engine. Additionally for that price a nice efb with full simbrief and maps integration would be essential. And of course, custom fly-by-wire, custom engine model etc etc with service based failures, hydraulic pumps simulating delays etc, just like the Fenix. It should feel alive at this price point and not one action should result in the same reaction every time. Cockpit and external textures and models should be at least at Fenix level where you can't really tell if it is real or a sim.

IF and only if all these are included then it's probably a fair price, but again would only sell and be appreciated by the hard-core MD11 fans like me, that would simulate cargo operations. 

Edited June 14, 20223 yr by Makinen11