1 hour ago, Rogen said:

The reality is the gamer crowd are a different market to those who consider themselves hobbyists and enthusiasts.

Hobbyists and enthusiasts will willingly spend for their chosen genre, even if an item is a little pricy (I watched a racing sim enthusiast spend ~$2,000.00 on a carbon fibre steering wheel), plus hands up if you've a 3080+ GFX card (which is a very pricy spend), although commercial is the real path to income in niche types of markets.

The company I work for sells commercial use software at $12,000.00 per license plus an additional %20 per year as annual software maintenance and there are no shortage of sales.

MSFS would have a long way to go before it is usable is a commercial sense though, e.g. there has to be repeatable saved senarios, weather managment including historical, full multi-monitor, plus commercial use licensing for every software component and toolset in use within the system.

Sure, looking pretty attracts the plebs but ultimately the experience is shallow as it stands now.

Still I would expect hobbyists to spend for the MD11 considering what else is there ??? plus it's an interesting plane considerably different to other jetliners.

Cheers

 

 

So I take it that you use P3D since you often post in the P3D forums?  You realize that as of the latest Navigraph survey, there are more Navigraph users for MSFS than P3D, right?  Ergo, if Navigraph users represent the "hard core simmers" in flight simulation - the dedicated "hobbyists" and "enthusiasts" you mentioned, the "hard core simmers" have overwhelmingly voted for MSFS as the primary sim, over P3D at this point in time.

Edited February 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

We've all gotten cheap that's why haha!  90 USD is a steal for a high fidelity quality airliner!  Bring it on!

4 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

PMDG stated their sales numbers were dismal even in FSX. Why they never pursued it any further.

Can anyone say why that was? Was it a poor simulation? Did it just get over run by the B737 and B747 sales? The market is only so big, right? Was it priced too high in comparison to these other PMDG offerings or perhaps to other 3PD offerings such as I-Fly? 

I considered purchasing it myself for FS9 but frankly with young kids and a mortgage, and a job with a lot of away time I really couldn't justify it. Was going to get it for FSX but with all the problems FSX had (blurries etc) I just gave up on the sim altogether. Now with MSFS this looks like a great purchase. I mean it is such an interesting aircraft. I'm a fan of Fedex ops (not because I saw Castaway!) but because I receive goods from an auto dealer in the Eastern US and I can track packages across the US to Honolulu and then to Auckland to the extent I can predict which Fedex service they will be on, track them on flight Radar and I can guarantee they will be delivered on time to my office in Auckland NZ by a certain time. Usually within 5 days. I could go on but let's just say their operation and their aircraft impress me. In my previous Air Force life I have operated alongside KC Extenders and my first recreational trip overseas with my new wife was on an Air NZ DC-10. Tragically, an Air New Zealand DC-10 (not an MD-11 I know) crashed into Mt Erebus Antarctica killing all onboard and as a Air Force C-130 crew member at the time we had some sobering tasks to complete. So I feel the DC-10, MD-11 have been a part of my life for ever in one way or another so I just have to get this bird this time around. Will sell first born if necessary. 🤣

 

       

I'm just grateful we are getting our favorite heavies (Leonardo MD82 and TFDI MD-11) in MSFS!

These are some of the planes we miss flying from the old sim platforms.

31 minutes ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Can anyone say why that was? Was it a poor simulation? Did it just get over run by the B737 and B747 sales?        

I do not think anyone knows except for PMDG.  But reading in between the lines, it sounded like the MD-11 sales were dwarfed by the 737 and 747 sales.  But that is to be expected...the latter are really popular airplanes whereas as stated in this thread the MD-11 has always been a niche airplane in real life and also in the sim.

It wasn't a poor simulation.  Although it did have some teething troubles at first handling upper air wind shifts, but that was mostly an FSX issue and it was eventually overcome and completely fixed.  By 2009 the MD-11 was a wonderful simulation of that airliner.

Part of PMDG stating that, may also be a bit of sour memories, as they want absolutely nothing to do with an MD-11 nowadays.  I say that in light of the lead developer of the MD-11 leaving PMDG years ago now.  PMDG has denied that this was a reason for them continually poo-poo'ing the MD-11, but, I'm skeptical -- there seems to be more ire towards that airframe than would be expected.  Unless PMDG are REALLY trolling us with the MD-11 jokes.  That's always possible.

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

So I take it that you use P3D since you often post in the P3D forums?  You realize that as of the latest Navigraph survey, there are more Navigraph users for MSFS than P3D, right?  Ergo, if Navigraph users represent the "hard core simmers" in flight simulation - the dedicated "hobbyists" and "enthusiasts" you mentioned, the "hard core simmers" have overwhelmingly voted for MSFS as the primary sim, over P3D at this point in time.

I'd let him be.  It sounds like he has a hard enough time keeping up with his dental issues (I "looked it up"), so he probably hasn't been able to keep up with the rapid development that's been happening in MSFS.  The perspective of a lot of these detractors seem to be frozen in time to Aug 2020.  So be it.

People like that should probably try to make the best out of the waning months where there is a valid rationale to knock the "new kid".  Doesnt look like there are many left.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by VFXSimmer

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

So I take it that you use P3D since you often post in the P3D forums?  You realize that as of the latest Navigraph survey, there are more Navigraph users for MSFS than P3D, right?  Ergo, if Navigraph users represent the "hard core simmers" in flight simulation - the dedicated "hobbyists" and "enthusiasts" you mentioned, the "hard core simmers" have overwhelmingly voted for MSFS as the primary sim, over P3D at this point in time.

Sigh...

Honestly I really don't give a rats...

But lets check the survey on the board.

We polled 200% of sim users and survey results are in !!

Spoiler

A. Fan bois 100%

B. Zealots   110%

C. Just generally don't like an opinion different to theirs   120%

D. Have skin so thin they cannot go outside in sunlight lest they catch fire 170%

💤

Cheers

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by Rogen

$90 for a base addon? What is this? 2005?

9 hours ago, Rogen said:

Actually I'm just killing a little time while awaiting an endodontic treatment.

Feel free to look it up 🙂

Cheers

Fail of the year - Richard is actually a dentist 🙂

 

I remember another developer justifying higher prices for P3D addons based on the fact it was a "professional simulator with a professional license". 60 euros is an already good price for a full simulated addon. So for that price the 717 should have been the best it could, and so should the MD-11.

I am not going to spend that amount of money, not because i don't have it, not because spending expenses shows the "true enthusiasts" (without even getting into how pointless is to make differences in the crowd of users when we are all here sitting on a chair in front of a computer program) but because for the same amount of money i can hopefully get other well done addons or wait for those who claimed their prices will be lower while offering a similar or superior fidelty.

The amount of users in MSFS is much higher which should justify a lower price. If they expect it is justified because they actually had to work on it instead of porting it over (FSX to P3D PMDG vibes, anyone?) or because they need to sustain it being released for P3D (did i ask them to do so?) they are deadly wrong.

I'll stick to believing that a decent airliner for MSFS shoudn't cost more than 60-70€, with normal operating procedures.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by Pastaiolo

The plane has not even been shown yet, but the price has been announced. Therefore, money is a priority for the developer. There is no product, but there is a price tag. Suspicious strategy.

10 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

We've all gotten cheap that's why haha!  90 USD is a steal for a high fidelity quality airliner!  Bring it on!

Especially if you see how many hours of joy a good quality addon will give you. 
 

90 bucks well spent!

1 hour ago, Pastaiolo said:

 

 If they expect it is justified because they actually had to work on it instead of porting it over (FSX to P3D PMDG vibes, anyone?) or because they need to sustain it being released for P3D (did i ask them to do so?) they are deadly wrong.

I’d love to see your boss say to you: „if you expect loan just because you worked for it you’re deadly wrong“

Well, that was an intresting read.🙄

People wanting it to be better than PMDG MD-11 for FSX, well go to you tube and look what it looked like, on that front it will will be miles ahead. systerm wise, it should be ok.

As for 

15 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

PMDG stated their sales numbers were dismal even in FSX. Why they never pursued it any further.

Well, that depends who you care to believe. Why do you think there was never a update for it, nothing! could it be that the maker of that MD-11 is said to have took it when he left PMDG? as he made it? Robert will and has said  its still PMDG, but for years people wanted an update, but there was never one. Nothing.....and a lot of people love the MD-11....You should all know what Roberts like by now.

In any shape and form "PMDG" MD-11 is way to old to be compaired with the one coming. Becasue no one would buy that "PMDG" MD-11 if it looked and worked like it did in FSX.

There will problery never be another one also, so if you want a MD-11 then splash the cash or dont.🙂

I had the "PMDG" MD-11, dont like it...I would sooner have the MadDog but I did not like that also. Years in FSX and P3D have shown am best buying the NG and the A320. I might buy the PMDG 757F for something F.

 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by Nyxx

18 minutes ago, MySound said:

Especially if you see how many hours of joy a good quality addon will give you. 
 

90 bucks well spent!

I gotta say, quietly, I bought Demio's Felon on a sale they had for 13 bucks NZ. What's that ? About $US10? 

If someone said to me they were going to strap me into a Russian fast jet for 2 hours and let me fly it low level and to 66,000 feet at above Mach 2 and they said it would cost me 13 bucks, I wouldn't have believed them.  I bought it for one time use only but I have flown it way more than that. It's unreal in so many senses of the word, but is more fun than a barrel roll full of monkeys!!   🤣 So yeah if that's what you get with a mediocre addon, then I agree with you @MySound, a good quality addon can give an even bigger bang for your buck.