On 2/19/2022 at 2:15 PM, PiaggioPilot said:

Hi everyone,

First off, I know this has a million threads about, but I am having trouble finding any solution. I have just bought a new PC (i7 12700KF 3.6 Ghz, not overclocked, RTX 3070, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 650 PSU), I finally finished installing the sim yesterday after about 24 hours, and immediately after loading it up, I was getting CTDs. The trend was that it'd freeze for about 3 seconds, then the screen would go black, and immediately crash. Sometimes I can load up a flight, but then after a few mins, it'll freeze and then quit. I was even getting BSODs until I gave up and turned the whole thing off..

I've been doing my research as I know many people experienced this but all the potential fixes I've found, haven't worked. I've updated my RTX drivers, adjusted my virtual RAM but I continue to get CTDs. It doesn't make sense to me because it is a brand new PC with nothing on it except the sim. I have no addons installed and I would have thought the the version number of the sim I have, would have ironed out all these bugs by now, since its release in 2020. 

Can anyone provide some advice on a fix I might have not tried yet. I haven't messed around with my Nvidia control panel yet and I believe I might have read somewhere about changing some settings in there. Also, is there a previous 3070 driver that anyone knows about which is known to be stable? 

It is so demoralizing having just bought a $2,000 PC, $350 4K monitor, $200 Thrustmaster Airbus stick just to use MSFS and to then get nothing but CTDs. 

The ironic thing is, I am a RW corporate pilot but had the urge recently to get back into a bit of simming for the fun and freedom of it, yet the headaches this has already caused are making me wonder why I bothered.

Thanks so much everyone.

If this is also happening with some other games, it could be a seating issue with either one of your memory modules or your gpu. I would try removing and then reseating those items OR, if you are not comfortable or knowledgeable in doing such things then I would simply go back to where the pc was purchased and have them test the new computer they sold you. If it was shipped to you the gpu or memory could have come unseated ever so slightly.

A bad psu is going to cause system resets way more often than a bsod. It will just randomly reboot without any error at all if it is struggling or having a fault. Bsods are almost entirely due to failing hardware like memory, bad overclocks or video cards/drivers.

On 2/19/2022 at 9:32 PM, Bobsk8 said:

A software program does not cause a BSOD, period. 

unfortunately not true. period.

as The Moose said correctly "The crucial factor is having the right wattage on the right rails, in this case it's all bout the 12v rails. You want almost all of that advertised wattage on the 12v rails."

but even that may not be enough.

games can create very short (milliseconds) extreme high load power spikes on the GPU which go beyond the average power consumption and something you can not display with pc tools like GPU-Z etc. you'd need expensive external test equipment (as seen in Igor's Lab), costing a lot more than the whole pc.

power drawn from the PSU is not constant during gaming but can fluctuate heavily. this was never a problem with any of my previous flight simulators, but MSFS obviously is a lot more demanding offloading more code onto the GPU (heavy use of GPU programming) instead of mostly limited to creating the graphics.

using MSFS on my system (64 GB ram, i9900K, RTX 3090 (all non-overclocked) shows a total average power consumption of only 480 watts maximum, so I thought my 650 watts power supply should suffice. but I kept getting complete pc shut downs after flying between 10-30 seconds. After I learnt from Igor's lab tests about those short power spikes (caused by GPU) lasting only milliseconds which can draw more than what the power supply can handle under average conditions (and what PSU manufacturer charts would recommend) I upgraded to a 1.000 watt PSU and never had a hardware crash ever since.

 

750 watts peak on 12 Volt rail up from 300 watts:

https://www.igorslab.de/en/the-battle-of-graphics-card-against-power-supply-power-consumption-and-peak-loads-demystified/

https://www.igorslab.de/en/intel-core-i9-11900k-power-consumption-and-hidden-load-peaks-warning-and-alerting/4/

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by turbomax

22 minutes ago, turbomax said:

unfortunately not true. period.

as Moose said correctly "The crucial factor is having the right wattage on the right rails, in this case it's all bout the 12v rails. You want almost all of that advertised wattage on the 12v rails."

but even that may not be enough.

games can create very short (milliseconds) extreme high load power spikes on the GPUs which go beyond the average power consumption and something you can not display with pc tools like GPU-Z etc. you'd need external expensive test equipment (as seen in Igor's Lab), costing a lot more than the whole pc. using MSFS on my system (64 GB ram, i9900K, RTX 3090 (all non-overclocked) shows a total average power consumption of 480 watts maximum, so I thought my 650 watts power supply should suffice. but I kept getting complete pc shut downs after flying between 10-30 seconds. After I learnt from Igor's lab tests about those short power spikes (caused by GPU) lasting only milliseconds which can draw more than what the power supply can handle under average conditions (and what PSU manufacturer charts would recommend) I upgraded to a 1.000 watt PSU and never had a hardware crash ever since.

 

https://www.igorslab.de/en/the-battle-of-graphics-card-against-power-supply-power-consumption-and-peak-loads-demystified/

 If I had a 3090 GPU, and was having issues, the first thing i would look at is replacing the 650 watt with  either a 750 or 1000 watt PSU. The minimum PSU, is taking a risk in my opinion. 

 

https://futuredly.com/how-many-watts-nvidia-rtx-3090/#:~:text=How Many Watts for RTX,should be at least 800W.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

Interesting information about spikes and psu's as I'm just about to install a new 3080 (snagged in the NE Shuffle) into my system which has a Seasonic Titanium Ultra 750 psu installed. I was not certain that 750 will be enough, although that is what's recommended by Nvidia for the 3080's. If I start having issues I may end up upgrading the psu...but of course I'm hoping this 750 will suffice.

5 minutes ago, hangar said:

Interesting information about spikes and psu's as I'm just about to install a new 3080 (snagged in the NE Shuffle) into my system which has a Seasonic Titanium Ultra 750 psu installed. I was not certain that 750 will be enough, although that is what's recommended by Nvidia for the 3080's. If I start having issues I may end up upgrading the psu...but of course I'm hoping this 750 will suffice.

The additional cost of getting a larger wattage PSU usually isn't that much. The Seasonic should be a very good PSU...

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

Had some problems like yours weeks ago, 

I résolved by uninstall all sound driver from realtek, nahemic and other Come from Asus, check your install drivers. After that i create some exclude for my antivirus, folder and process. 

I tried multiples things Saw here and there unfortunaly, nothing had a good effect.

Now i Can fly with my 12900k, 3090 and 64gb of ddr4 without mod.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

If I had a 3090 GPU, and was having issues, the first thing i would look at is replacing the 650 watt

exactly what I did. but the interesting fact: it was never before an issue with xplane or P3D with an RTX 3090, only with MSFS, so obviously software CAN create BSODs, that was my point. flying MSFS costs more electricity per hour than the other older simulators. 😊

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by turbomax

5 minutes ago, grandfred29 said:

Had some problems like yours weeks ago, 

I résolved by uninstall all sound driver from realtek, nahemic and other Come from Asus, check your install drivers. After that i create some exclude for my antivirus, folder and process. 

I tried multiples things Saw here and there unfortunaly, nothing had a good effect.

Now i Can fly with my 12900k, 3090 and 64gb of ddr4 without mod.

After faulty cable connections, drivers (be they not the correct driver or out of date drivers) are often the second most common cause of

all sorts of hassle. At least in my experience.

3 minutes ago, turbomax said:

exactly what I did. but the interesting fact: it was never before an issue with xplane or P3D, so obviously software CAN create BSODs, that was my point. flying MSFS costs more electricity per hour. 😊

When I was having my CTDs a year ago, they stress tested my PC with three different programs and it passed with flying colors ( no pun intended), but MSFS caused it to CTD within a few minutes. From 650 watt to  750 Watt PSU cured the problem. 

49 minutes ago, hangar said:

I'm hoping this 750 will suffice.

why not getting at least 1.000 watts while you are at it, the next generation RTX 4000 series is rumored to draw yet another 50 - 100 watts. BeQuiet is another high quality PSU brand.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by turbomax

On 2/19/2022 at 2:38 PM, 40track said:

650W PSU is woefully underpowered for the CPU Components (12700KF=300W + 3070=300W just on their own). Replace with at least a 850W PSU.

Sorry this is not the case. As long as his PSU is working fine He is well within spec of power requirements. We can close off that avenue being an issue as long as your PSU cables are properly plugged in to the gpu and MB/CPU supplemental ports and your entire PC isnt shutting off randomly (As @Rob_Ainscough correctly posted). If you want to check the recommended wattage for yourself you can use EVGA's power supply calculator on their website for reference. (Its coming up to 600 to 650 watts)

Now

Based on the issues your having i would question if you had installed the appropriate chipset drivers for your system and have the latest BIOS firmware installed. I would also ensure that the cpu inst overheating from a less than ideal cooler install. I would also check to see if the system runs error free when the memory is using baseline timings rather than xmp which would give you a further hint as to what it possibly could be.

Nahemic service as someone else mentioned is also something that conflicts with the sim and should be disabled. I had to troubleshoot that myself when it reared its ugly head by preventing my sim from starting.

If you know how to navigate and interpret the event viewer in most cases it will give you some insight as to what is causing the error.

Those items would be on the checklist for me.

Good luck

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by Maxis

7 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

they stress tested my PC with three different programs and it passed with flying colors

as Igor's lab has pointed out in the articles above: those stress tests do not create spikes from 300 to 750 watts as observed in some games and in MSFS, therefore they are not enough to predict required power supply. they mostly test long term thermal and RAM stability.

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by turbomax

3 minutes ago, turbomax said:

why not getting at least 1.000 watts while you are at it, the next generation RTX 4000 series is rumored to draw yet another 50 - 100 watts. BeQuiet is another high quality brand.

Well my Seasonic 750 psu has been in use for 3 years now since I built the system back in Jan. 2019. So the new 3080 is going into a 3 year old machine.

When I build a new pc in about another 2 years I will then buy a new 1,000+ PSU and Ill likely chuck a new 40 or 50 series gpu in there.

I like to build new from scratch about every 5-7 years with new case, drives, cpu, gpu, memory, monitor, etc. then in between new builds I like to upgrade only the gpu and memory if possible.

Keeping my fingers crossed with the 750 for now, unless I do have issues.

3 hours ago, Maxis said:

Sorry this is not the case. As long as his PSU is working fine He is well within spec of power requirements.

not "well within spec of power" according to BeQuiet power supply calculator, they recommend 750 watts power supply minimum, just as 40tracks said:

Edited February 21, 20224 yr by turbomax