29 minutes ago, mSparks said:

water cooling should be standard on PCs, all this "prop airplane" cooling fan non-sense is all the PC builders fault. Had many arguments about that over the years - with people who had never actually stretched the legs of their PC.

You still need fans to keep the water cool no? 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

water cooling should be standard on PCs, all this "prop airplane" cooling fan non-sense is all the PC builders fault. Had many arguments about that over the years - with people who had never actually stretched the legs of their PC.

This is my home PC, so, the most I could do would be Port Wine cooling, never water !

44 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You still need fans to keep the water cool no? 

But there are several of them, they are bigger, run slower and don't need to overcompensate for hot spots, so never have to run up to take off speed the way air cooled fans do. At worst they sound like a slightly nosier fish tank if you are really pushing the PC hard for a long period of time and there is some air in there when the (otherwise silent) water pump starts pumping harder.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by mSparks

7 minutes ago, mSparks said:

But there are several of them, they are bigger, run slower and don't need to overcompensate for hot spots, so never have to run up to take off speed the way air cooled fans do. At worst they sound like a slightly nosier fish tank if you are really pushing the PC hard for a long period of time and there is some air in there when the (otherwise silent) water pump starts pumping harder.

Or, just get a case with better air cooling and you’ll probably have the same noise.. I know because I have both 🙂 

26 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Or, just get a case with better air cooling and you’ll probably have the same noise.. I know because I have both 🙂 

Air cooling is "OK" if you dont push the machine (web browsing, office etc, most "graphics only" games)

What jcomm is describing is his fans ramping up to maybe 5000 rpm from 2000rpm as the CPU gets close to peak temps. on air cooling this happens all the time when you push it - I know because my PCs CPUs often spend weeks at a time at 100% utilisation for various large health and financial computations. Lots of PC builders grossly underestimate the cooling requirements of modern PCs because generally speaking its very hard to push them to their limits - but when you do, and the chip is heating the system at >100W, a single 200mm fan doesn't cut it unless its pushing air through the system like a leaf blower, and it sounds like one when it does.

But I'll continue this here

 

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by mSparks

12 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

@MrBitstFlyer, what @fogboundturtle said.  Have you lived in Vancouver @MrBitstFlyer?  Take it from me and @fogboundturtle, who have lived in Vancouver.  The buildings in the top left of that photo look nothing like what downtown Vancouver looks like.  And Canada Place isn't even close in the top left photo.

Why do I need to live in Vancouver to compare two screenshots?

Is The MSFS screenshot using photogrammetry?  If so compare autogen to autogen.  In any case, when I look at each screenshot I see buildings, marinas and trees in the same place. I see low buildings where low buildings should be. If I am flying VFR and need to identify Vancouver from a few miles away, I don't think I will mis-identify it it in XP12.

Of course, if for some reason I want to fly with photogrammetry, I can load up and fly with MSFS.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by MrBitstFlyer

I think that one reddit commenter got it perfectly right about the three screenshots of Vancouver when he said one of them is 2010, one is 2015 and one is 2020 standard.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

water cooling should be standard on PCs, all this "prop airplane" cooling fan non-sense is all the PC builders fault. Had many arguments about that over the years - with people who had never actually stretched the legs of their PC.

My CPU is water cooled and I have three fans on the front, one underneath, two on the back and two on the top.  I have all settings maxed/high - I have AA on 8x.  My cpu/gpu utilisation both are around 150-250 with fps averaging 40fps.  Over cities fps dips to 30-35 but in open country I am see 100fps.  I don't really see any difference between MSFS & XP-12 noise wise.

After an initial problem, beta 3 has certainly boosted performance.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by MrBitstFlyer

8 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Trolls? Granted there are a few with strong opinions, but I’d hardly say there were trolls here….. it seems to me that die hard XP users can’t accept its criticism.

Whereas the MSFS diehards wholeheartedly admit the shortcomings of their favourite. Oh ... wait ... there are heated discussions about the flight modeling  amongst them.
I also remember a thread where the question came up, whether MSFS simulates wet runways. It was discussed and one of the well known diehards suspected kind of "a coordinated troll invasion going on" - even without one single XP user involved 😂.

 

8 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I’ve used XP for many years, and I can see it’s pros and cons.

I have used MSFS as well before switching to XP, so ...

 

8 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I’m not sure why it has to be compared to MsFS.

Who always starts the comparisons?

 

And now I'm off for creating further videos.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by flying_carpet

2 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

so ...

So what? 

I've been around AVSIM for more than 10 years. I do have to say that X-plane community have always been more sensitive about criticism than other sims.  It just a fact. I think they are trying to preach about the quality of it's flight model but like many among us, we are not happy about the performance to visual ratio we get in XP. This has been an issue for as far as I've been using XP (since XP10). I am uncertain whether LR has the capacity or the technical know how  to get the CPU Core Bottleneck that has been plaguing their engine for so long.  Austin seems to be so focus on the FM that he forgot that they also need to improved perf. XP12 , so far, has better visual than XP11 but still very much lack behind in performance.  It's still barely use 2 or 3 threads while flying. If you try an aircraft like the Q4XP, don't expect anything more than 30fps on the ground and maybe 40fps during flight, if you are lucky. In the meantime, my cpu and gpu are sitting there doing nothing. 

So. LR need to wake up and fix this. This on Ben to improved. So far, I am not impressed

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by fogboundturtle

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

I do have to say that X-plane community have always been more sensitive about criticism

To a point I agree with this, because the standard XP "community response" of "its not a bug and even if it is they wont fix it" got positively harmful. 

But also, there is a huge difference in criticism/issue reporting like "the airliners shouldnt have black smoke continually pouring out of the engines" and "my cessna pulls to the left when I dump full throttle for take off". 

A lot of that sensitivity undoubtedly came from 100 complaints of the cessna pulling to the left for 1 complaint about the engines smoking. 

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

we are not happy about the performance to visual ratio we get in XP.

again, dont really disagree with this, neither did LR, which is why over the last 5 or so years the invested so much time and energy resolving it....

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

has the capacity or the technical know how  to get the CPU Core Bottleneck

This I do disagree with. LR has done their part here, its the 3PDs that are lacking. Its why I made xtlua, and why the 744 now rarely drops below 120fps even in built up areas on max settings.

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

Austin seems to be so focus on the FM that he forgot that they also need to improved perf.

Austin "just" does flight model - everything else is someone elses responsibility. 

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

It's still barely use 2 or 3 threads while flying

fire up the sparky744, that adds another 3 threads to those 2 or 3. one for general systems and autopolit, one for displays and nav and another for the flight data recorder.

that does have the adverse effect of decreasing performance on machines that only have 4 cores, but everything is a trade off. and for free stuff I do "me first".

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

If you try an aircraft like the Q4XP, don't expect anything more than 30fps on the ground and maybe 40fps during flight,

see above.

Ben just confirmed in his blog that moonlight is coming. They are also looking to simulate 'blue hour'.

Beta 4 is in testing and will be out next week.

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by Baber20

4 minutes ago, Baber20 said:

Ben just confirmed in his blog that moonlight is coming. They are also looking to simulate 'blue hour'.

Beta 4 is in testing and will be out next week.

Both requested by me! 😀 Happy to learn they're taking them into consideration. I think no sim has ever modeled accurately the blue hour. If well done, that would make for some majestic screenshots.

Edited September 18, 20223 yr by Murmur

1 minute ago, Murmur said:

Both requested by me! 😀 Happy to learn they're taking them into consideration. I think no sim has ever modeled accurately the blue hour. If well done, that would make for some majestic screenshots.

Fantastic! Blue hour will be exceptional with a “Harvest Moon”. And perhaps the extra moon lighting effects will enhance the brightness when recording night flight videos on clear nights.