11 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Out of interest, how much disk space would I need to cover the whole world with Level16 ortho?

About 12TB [quick estimate] ($254.99 for a 14TB SSD drive from best buy) excluding the sea and poles for everything in between, only about half the worlds landmass seems to actually be covered to that LoD or better tho, you can download set at 16 and get sent upscaled 14 or 15.

 

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by mSparks

24 minutes ago, filou said:

XP - ZL16

Wow, these are superb !!

But, are these really ZL16 - 2,8m/pixel ? The details visible on the ground seem thinner than this ?

EDIT: nvm, might well be ZL16. The colors are just so much nicer than the ZL16 tiles I tried to generate for Norway 3 years ago 😞

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by Daube

41 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

PMDG developed aircraft for P3D, didn't know much about XP, ventured into it with the DC-6,

While ignoring the cries from many who venture over to XP and saw the potential and wanted 737NG to come over. The could have sold many based on their reputation as an premier aircraft developer than one who is just only interest is  to chase the buck to meet their bottom line. After all this was suppose to be a hobby that they are in the business to selling aircraft not the other way around. But that's how they want to operate where innovation get loss which only get use with it makes business sense. Yet we have Hot start CL650 to prove what can be done when done right which i'm sure sold very well. That should have been PMDG.

41 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

PS: IniBuilds most likely didn't just give the A310 away for fun but probably got a nice compensation from Microsoft to offer it for free to make up for the lack of direct revenue from it. Plus they're getting free advertising to make more people interested in their other MSFS projects.

That's not news, we all know they where compensated. But they are not on their own selling their aircraft, are they?

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by BobFS88

22 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

 

This is one of the new Avsim lows. Won't bother to respond (nor report). Wishing you a nice weekend. 🙂

Out of my whole post, you focussed on that?  I would love to know why that would require being reported.  My post was complementary to both sims, yet you still chose to be negative in your response.  

1 hour ago, psolk said:

I agree Austin is not a "follower" but clearly an innovator, that can never be denied.   

I think he was an innovator once. Now others took that role. But in the end, that's just how things go.

48 minutes ago, Daube said:

Wow, these are superb !!

But, are these really ZL16 - 2,8m/pixel ? The details visible on the ground seem thinner than this ?

EDIT: nvm, might well be ZL16. The colors are just so much nicer than the ZL16 tiles I tried to generate for Norway 3 years ago 😞

ZL16 is sharp above about 4,000ft.  Most of my flying is GA, so I downloaded the USA and Europe at ZL17.  Around ICAO airports I have ZL18 to keep the textures sharp when on the approach.

 

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by MrBitstFlyer

42 minutes ago, mSparks said:

1. What results

2. At what cost

3. With what unwanted consequences.

So far the only "results" seem to be MS used the brandname and it might have some better automatically generated 3D building objects if you want to pay an annual subscription?

That last bit kills it dead for me.

What results? MSFS is being badmouthed as a "scenery game" by many since its release and now you're trying to make a case that its scenery actually isn't good as it doesn't achieve any results? There also aren't any costs or "unwanted consequences" and no one is paying an annual subscription for anything. What the heck are you talking about?

32 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

While ignoring the cries from many who venture over to XP and saw the potential and wanted 737NG to come over. The could have sold many based on their reputation as an premier aircraft developer than one who is just only interest is  to chase the buck to meet their bottom line. After all this was suppose to be a hobby that they are in the business to selling aircraft not the other way around. But that's how they want to operate where innovation get loss which only get use with it makes business sense. Yet we have Hot start CL650 to prove what can be done when done right which i'm sure sold very well. That should have been PMDG.

That's not news, we all know they where compensated. But they are not on their own selling their aircraft, are they?

PMDG are a full-time business with 10 or so people living off of the money they make. They're not a charity. Do you actually expect them to willingly make losses and drive their business into the ground by developing for a second platform that's not economically viable for them only because some people would like them to because it's their hobby? The point of a business is to make profit, not losses... No offense but that's just low-effort criticism. I think flight simmers need to stop expecting flight sim developers to act purely out of altruistic motivation.

The problem comparing PMDG to Hotstart is that Hotstart develop one aircraft for one platform (AFAIK), whereas PMDG develop three aircraft and people want them to produce them all for both platforms at the same time too. That's just not gonna work if you're a 10-man business and if they go out of business no one's getting any aircraft.

1 hour ago, Daube said:

Wow, these are superb !!

But, are these really ZL16 - 2,8m/pixel ? The details visible on the ground seem thinner than this ?

EDIT: nvm, might well be ZL16. The colors are just so much nicer than the ZL16 tiles I tried to generate for Norway 3 years ago 😞

 I am not a fan of technical debates . I have always done things simply .Ortho4xp Software  ZL16 (Never tried a ZL higher)  nothing more and nothing less.

The result of the ZL16 tiles as in the photos is greatly sufficient for me and I can't wait to see the same thing with MSFS.But for the moment I am satisfied with Google Map.

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

About 12TB [quick estimate] ($254.99 for a 14TB SSD drive from best buy) excluding the sea and poles for everything in between, only about half the worlds landmass seems to actually be covered to that LoD or better tho, you can download set at 16 and get sent upscaled 14 or 15.

 

More like 120TB I expect. And that's without the sim, photogrammetry and everything else to make it realistic. I'm guessing I'd have to start the sim the day before I actually want to use it because of the loading time.😀

3 hours ago, psolk said:

Apparently they can.... I haven't tried wake turbulence personally because AI is still so broken in MSFS and bird strikes, frankly something that is such a rarity in the real world is not a "requirement" for me personally...   It's one of those features you "may" see in your flying career or you may not...  Sully did, but 99.9% of pilots will never experience it and as demonstrated there are instances they wont even know it happened until after the flight on a post flight inspection.  I'd be one of those people who shut it off anyway.  And yes, you can overstress an aircraft in MSFS as well.  

 

If that's is really true, then wait until they take it back ... because MSFS users don't like too much realism. We have seen this with the behavior of flying in icy conditions. Users complained that the planes are hardly to control and MS/Asobo removed it.
And as we can see in jcomm's post, no reaction from the MSFS users. Another indication that they aren't really interested in extensive correct simulation.

 

3 hours ago, Nixoq said:

Bird strikes actually occur more often than many think, but you're right in that often it's only discovered during the next walkaround or an inspection. What happened to Sully or even wrecking just one engine is rare.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK the difference in bird strike simulation in XP is just that you actually see a duck fly into an engine and/or see flames. The simulation of the what the engine does in response to sucking in birds it entirely possible for any aircraft dev to simulate in MSFS by adjusting parameters such as N1, EGT, etc.. It's nice to see that XP simulates this kind of stuff even with default aircraft, but I don't see why would mean MSFS is less of a simulation just because there was no decision to implement this. By the same logic P3D would be less of a simulation as well and I'm not seeing anyone making these kind of statements about P3D.

And where are the birds coming from? Will the 3PD developer add them?
As you asked why "MSFS is less of a simulation just because there was no decision to implement this." If a 3PD decides to add that feature to his plane, is like I have bought a new car, but it doesn't have failures. I have to buy them as addon/accessory. In this case, I would pass on this, because I don't want my car to fail.
Maybe, reality should adopt to MSFS    😄 , so that no bird strikes can occur anymore. Capt. Sully would have been happy about this. Would have saved him some headache.

 

However ... this thread is really how can I say ...? We all know, the dieh.rd MSFS cult members wish the demise of X-Plane. But yet they make suggestions, how X-Plane can sell more copies? That's pure ... um ... is it a contradiction ... or ... even comedy? Thanks for entertaining us. Oh ... wait ... or is it pure trol.ing?

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by flying_carpet

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

About 12TB [quick estimate] ($254.99 for a 14TB SSD drive from best buy) excluding the sea and poles for everything in between, only about half the worlds landmass seems to actually be covered to that LoD or better tho, you can download set at 16 and get sent upscaled 14 or 15.

 

Good Sir, I would very much appreciate the link to this 14TB SSD drive from best buy so that I can immediately order this amazing product. Thank you!

The neverending tug-of-war...continues.

7 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

why would you want X-Plane to be a replica of the other sim?

right, why bother to improve anything and not leave old tech as it is, to make sure to be different. why improve on graphics, flight model, traffic, weather, scenery, AI, clouds etc. better to make sure not  to become a replica, let alone improve upon other simulators. 😄

23 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

More like 120TB I expect. And that's without the sim, photogrammetry and everything else to make it realistic. I'm guessing I'd have to start the sim the day before I actually want to use it because of the loading time.😀

One way or another, far too much to stream flying high and/or fast apparently.

London to Manchester takes about 20 minutes flight time, and would need you to download 26GB (13 tiles) if it was streaming only L16, not even a 1000Mbs network connection would keep up. 

Which is why

3 hours ago, Daube said:

"MSFS doesn't even deliver zoom16"

Meanwhile, for Xplane 11 (and hopefully cleaned up for XP12 soon)

https://orbxdirect.com/bundle/trueearth-great-britain-collection-bundle-xp11

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by mSparks

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

One way or another, far too much to stream flying high and/or fast apparently.

London to Manchester takes about 20 minutes flight time, and would need you to download 26GB (13 tiles) if it was streaming only L16, not even a 1000Mbs network connection would keep up. 

Which is why

Haha. But I want to fly from London to Malta. And I don't want to have to spend an age creating, downloading or paying for orthos in order to do so. It's nearly 2023. I'm waiting for the final release of XP12 before I decide whether to buy it. Cost, total cost, will be the deciding factor.