47 minutes ago, guenseli said:

That you can't delete your files is since the beginning as far as I can say ... at least since mid of last year. details have changed, but they always have said that they'd like to keep stuff uploaded. In the FAQ there is a good explanation, why.

https://flightsim.to/help/uploading-at-flightsimto/limited-ability-to-delete-your-file

Dated October 2022. It was not the case before. 

And while downloaders may not care, many of the folk who make the things being downloaded do. Their opinion is rather fundamental to the whole process. 

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by superspud

4 minutes ago, superspud said:

And while downloaders may not care, many of the folk who make the things being downloaded do. Their opinion is rather fundamental to the whole process. 

I'm one of the uploaders and I do not care to be honest.

I even had asked for some files for manual deletion and they did that also (but was outdated stuff or wrong uploads).

I can't read anywhere that I loose anything. And if my files now forever on their servers or not I do not care also. If I do not want to have my stuff downloaded any more, I put them in their recycle bin and do not care any more. What will downloaders then make with outdated files? (and they still belong to me!)

In any case, I can make uploads/updates with worthless files ...

 

But I can't see that anyone is loosing anything?

10 minutes ago, superspud said:

Dated October 2022. It was not the case before. 

Kind of different buttons have been there before this article. They have also changed details in that regard.

There are mods I've wanted gone, mainly because they're word not allowed or I can't be bothered to keep working on them. 

Despite being unlisted etc they're still being downloaded and I'm still being moaned at occasionally about them. That's irritating. 

If someone has a copyright issue and there's no way for them to control the file's availability then that's a proper problem. And one they shouldn't have to have. 

1 hour ago, guenseli said:

I really can't see, what is it now all about, sorry.

They talk about to make our stuff "sublicensable", and more important is §4.2. to me:

"You retain all of your ownership rights in your User Content. In short, what belongs to you stays yours. "

 

That you can't delete your files is since the beginning as far as I can say ... at least since mid of last year. details have changed, but they always have said that they'd like to keep stuff uploaded. In the FAQ there is a good explanation, why.

It should always be read in combination with the whole contract. You can't only take one clause.

With digital content it is really easy to copy.

But as a wonky analogy, let's assume you made a beautiful wooden table. And there is this place called flightsim.to which can copy and distribute it for you all over the world so you can share it everyone.

4.2 says your original copy is yours and stays yours. 4.3 says they can do whatever with all the copies. They don't need to inform you about it. 

With the combination you give away intellectuele property by the sentence; "you grant this Site" to "modify the User Content" "without further notice to, or permission from, you or any other person, and without compensation".

I would really be annoyed if you're hard work is taken away by someone, which starts to charge money for it.

 

I deleted my account at flightsim.to. (I was only a downloader)

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by bigifooti
Typo

17 minutes ago, bigifooti said:

4.2 says your original copy is yours and stays yours. 4.3 says they can do whatever with all the copies. They don't need to inform you about it. 

No, that is not true.You have to differentiate between copyright and usage rights.

Your "analogy" does not work as every table is unique and can't be copied.
however the design of it of course. Copyright stays with you, but not usage right if you sell the design.

 

Everybody who uploads sth to flightsim.to transfers the usage right to FS.to, as they say it in their TOS, otherwise they couldn't distribute the stuff to others. And all that TOS is not there since yesterday, so why is panic today?

12 hours ago, B777ER said:

If you don’t buy Premium, you can still download as you always did with the timer and ads on the website.

That's the big question: will non-premium users face a downgrade (compared to what we used to have)?

1 minute ago, Luis Hernandez said:

That's the big question: will non-premium users face a downgrade (compared to what we used to have)?

I doubt they would actively downgrade the experience, but they may not put as much effort into maintaining it for free users. 

There seems to be a revolt in progress. I've two updates available but the site says the file has been archived and is no longer supported by the author. And the file just contains an apology text file. This from D5turbi and good for him!

2 minutes ago, Luis Hernandez said:

That's the big question: will non-premium users face a downgrade (compared to what we used to have)?

Fully agree. We start the story with flightsim.to when it was a young  freeware sharing platform at MSFS launch, then move to a market place + freeware, then MSFS + Xplane, then the current update and concerned of the community. Looks like a continuous race to balance budget, profitability and search for revenue. No offense, nothing regarding web+hosting is free.

 

Overall, there're two topics here:

1. The protection of creator regarding their intellectual property. What's new ? Since Oct'22 ? Before ? Since the begining ?

2. The impact on regular users. What I have previously called the freeware spirit.

5 minutes ago, vbazillio said:

Fully agree. We start the story with flightsim.to when it was a young  freeware sharing platform at MSFS launch, then move to a market place + freeware, then MSFS + Xplane, then the current update and concerned of the community. Looks like a continuous race to balance budget, profitability and search for revenue. No offense, nothing regarding web+hosting is free.

 

Overall, there're two topics here:

1. The protection of creator regarding their intellectual property. What's new ? Since Oct'22 ? Before ? Since the begining ?

2. The impact on regular users. What I have previously called the freeware spirit.

I understand they have costs to meet. I would not mind buying, say, 1GB of downloads or whatever. And buying more once I've used it. But a subscription? No.

And they would need to stop pissingoff the developers to ensure I've got the best freeware available.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by jarmstro

They also like to change ToS without notifying anyone about it. But of course, they also have a section covering that, essentially saying they dont have to notify, or we dont have to accept the new ToS.

Whoever wrote them ToS absolutely made a conscious effort of making sure anything that even remotely enters their web is theirs, for ever and ever until and for eternity. 
One example, is the section saying if your account is terminated, suspended, or deleted by you or them, your content would still remain available and theirs. Whereas before, if your account disapeared, all your stuff would go with it, no traces of you would remain visible. 

 

51 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But a subscription? No.

Billion of times, is not subscription. You buy for the month and if you don't want, don't do. And nobody is forcing you. Chill, you people seriously need to understand how expensive this can get. 

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

I would not mind buying, say, 1GB of downloads or whatever. And buying more once I've used it. But a subscription? No.

Nice idea in theory. However, say you buy 1 GB for $10 and use it over 6 months. In the meantime, flightsim.to has server costs that equate to say, $4 per month/user. They would face a loss of $14 over that 6-month period.

Their server provider will certainly charge them a fixed fee on a monthly basis. The fee is never flexible downwards, but certainly can go up massively if bandwidth usage goes over the service plan that is paid for.

Certainty of income is vital for a project/business like this.

 

The problem is everyone loves the price of $0. Despite justifiable complaints against flightsim.to, it's a resource most people will realise how good it is after it closes or becomes a shell of what it is now.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by F737MAX

I routinely use an Ad Blocker for all my internet use.  I have continuously gotten countdown popups at TO urging me to let the site through so they can earn ad revenue.  So I have done so but that did not change my countdown experience at all. I also occasionally had pop up ads block my ability to choose options or read conent at TO.  So frustrated, I reactivated the ad blocker on their site. 

Membership revenue is not the only potential revenue, but that appears to be the focus of the discussion here.  Perhaps they should instead consider creating a different experience for those of us that choose not to block.  I'd be on board with that again.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by fppilot