6 hours ago, webranger said:

Your lucky, SU12beta broke mine.

Guess I am lucky with all the betas so far, nothing really major ever broke on my end. Knock on wood

13 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Speed and distance are related to each other... If you start at 12000 feet runway you reach V1 at let's say 6000 feet left, if you start at 8000 feet you reach V1 at 2000 feet. In practice this will be mitigated by a lower V1 speed and higher thrust settings for intersection takeoffs, but still this means you'll have less margin to reject the takeoff in case of a serious issue, so - statistically spoken - more aircraft from intersections takeoffs will have to get airbone with an engine on fire than those from full runway takeoffs with an engine on fire.
So in a theoretical world without any traffic concerns or ATC procedures a full runway takeoff would be safest (and the most economic). But as others said, that's a moot discussion because in real life intersection takeoffs are commonplace.

Exactly.  The runway behind you is worthless, as the saying goes. 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Bobsk8

13 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Like you said, those distances are allllllll taken into account when a v1 SPEED is selected. But still, v1 isn’t a distance, it’s a speed. So to say an aircraft would reach v1 more quickly purely based off of an intersection is fundamentally wrong. Your math proves my point. 
 

I understand what you’re saying though. Your view point is more of a big picture understanding.

V1 is a speed calculated in part by the runway length in front of you. The shorter the available runway, the lower the V1 speed.

 

Not to derail this thread but I really wish in one of these updates PMDG would go ahead and create a non winglet model for the 737NG Series.  I have been doing a lot of traveling for reals lately and non winglet 737's are still out there in numbers.  Not a lot but its not exactly zero.  The product is really not complete without non winglet models available.  Myself and many others have tried to convince PMDG to do it but its as if they can't be bothered or something and they give a lame excuse why (takes 12 weeks to develop per model, we don't do visual only models etc).  What PMDG seems to forget is this is a product we paid good money for and enough of the community has requested it. 

Regardless because of pure arrogance we will never see a PMDG 737NG again without those winglets.  Opens the door for the competition to come in and do it is what it does!

7 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

Not to derail this thread but I really wish in one of these updates PMDG would go ahead and create a non winglet model for the 737NG Series.  I have been doing a lot of traveling for reals lately and non winglet 737's are still out there in numbers.  Not a lot but its not exactly zero.  The product is really not complete without non winglet models available.  Myself and many others have tried to convince PMDG to do it but its as if they can't be bothered or something and they give a lame excuse why (takes 12 weeks to develop per model, we don't do visual only models etc).  What PMDG seems to forget is this is a product we paid good money for and enough of the community has requested it. 

Regardless because of pure arrogance we will never see a PMDG 737NG again without those winglets.  Opens the door for the competition to come in and do it is what it does!

I don't consider that a lame excuse in any way and neither is it "arrogance". It's a comitment to quality.

9 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

Not to derail this thread but I really wish in one of these updates PMDG would go ahead and create a non winglet model for the 737NG Series.  I have been doing a lot of traveling for reals lately and non winglet 737's are still out there in numbers.  Not a lot but its not exactly zero.  The product is really not complete without non winglet models available.  Myself and many others have tried to convince PMDG to do it but its as if they can't be bothered or something and they give a lame excuse why (takes 12 weeks to develop per model, we don't do visual only models etc).  What PMDG seems to forget is this is a product we paid good money for and enough of the community has requested it. 

Regardless because of pure arrogance we will never see a PMDG 737NG again without those winglets.  Opens the door for the competition to come in and do it is what it does!

Get the 737 600.....

I don't see why it would take 12 weeks to make a non-winglet model. They can copy the current model, duplicate and just fix the wing tips. Can't imagine that taking more than an afternoon.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Lotharen

1 minute ago, Jazz said:

I don't consider that a lame excuse in any way and neither is it "arrogance". It's a comitment to quality.

Agree. Takeaway the winglets and it’s a new flight model.

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

Get the 737 600.....

I agree. That's a lot of plane for the price and it doesn't have winglets.

1 minute ago, Lotharen said:

I don't see why it would take 12 weeks to make a non-winglet model. They can copy the current model, duplicate and just fix the wing tips. Can't imagine that taking more than an afternoon.

It's an entirely new flight model with entirely new mathematics to work through. 12 weeks sounds optimistic to me.

5 minutes ago, Jazz said:

It's an entirely new flight model with entirely new mathematics to work through. 12 weeks sounds optimistic to me.

The 737-600 without winglets is not a 737-900 without winglets.  Very different airplanes.  I used to do a lot of FDE work in past sims and the work done between a winglet model and non winglet model is pretty minimal.  A really sharp FDE guy could hammer out the changes needed in a day or 2 test fly and maybe another day to fine tune things a bit if needed.  They don't become completely new airplanes once the winglets are installed.  Its just a minor enhancement is all.  As for the physical modeling it likely has already been done!

I am not familiar with the inner workings of MSFS so I don't know what it takes to write an FDE in it but from what I can see its not that much different.  The Sim does not have the fidelity to really tell the difference anyway.  You could create a non winglet model set the FDE up for it and in the end its going to fly just like the winglet models fly.  This is mostly just a visual enhancement showing respect for historic repaints and the few models still flying without them.     

21 minutes ago, Lotharen said:

I don't see why it would take 12 weeks to make a non-winglet model. They can copy the current model, duplicate and just fix the wing tips. Can't imagine that taking more than an afternoon.

That's the spirit of CaptainScam right there!

3 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

The 737-600 without winglets is not a 737-900 without winglets. 

And a 737 with winglets is not the same as one without them. If it were they wouldn't bother putting them on in the first place.

6 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

A really sharp FDE guy could hammer out the changes needed in a day or 2 test fly and maybe another day to fine tune things a bit if needed.

So PMDG is lying when they say it will take them 12 weeks then?

I'm pleased that PMDG do not indulge visual guff without substance. It's the details they adhere to that has kept me a loyal customer. Such empty nonsense would devalue their brand and reputation.

1 minute ago, Fiorentoni said:

That's the spirit of CaptainScam right there!

LOL, now that's funny....

3 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

That's the spirit of CaptainScam right there!

Exactly!