PMDG statement on V6

[level7 177]

51 minutes ago, DEHowie said:

P3DV5 was a work in progress from first release and LM walking away with the job half done is to me far worse than anything PMDG has done. Leaving 5.4 in the state its in is pretty despicable move rather than fix what we all paid for. We are all left now with a sim with some ugly visuals that have been left unfixed by LM and no real prospect of any fix ever.

It's a bit optimistic to expect a huge visual upgrade in a point release (i.e. you want it for free) and also maintain all add-on compatibility.

[d.tsakiris 424]

1 minute ago, sdirand said:

Do you think you could enjoy those PMDG, FsLabs, Ifly, etc add-ons in the state they are if those developpers would have strickly stayed SDK-compliant?

Well, while I do enjoy the PMDG add-ons (don't have FSL or newer iFly products), I also enjoy (maybe even more so) Majestic's excellent Dash 8, which (supposedly) is compliant (enough) to run in V6.

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here in many respects. V6 isn't even publicly available yet. Time will tell...

[sdirand 259]

4 minutes ago, d.tsakiris said:

Well, while I do enjoy the PMDG add-ons (don't have FSL or newer iFly products), I also enjoy (maybe even more so) Majestic's excellent Dash 8, which (supposedly) is compliant (enough) to run in V6.

Do you have an official statement from Majestic that their Dash-400 will be fully compatible with 6.0 outside that we have seen a picture with a 6.0 option in the installer?

Edited July 3, 2023 by sdirand

[d.tsakiris 424]

5 minutes ago, sdirand said:

Do you have an official statement from Majestic that their Dash-400 will be fully compatible with 6.0 outside that we have seen a picture with a 6.0 option in the installer?

No, which is why I added the "(supposedly)" and the second paragraph.

[Torsen 507]

6 minutes ago, sdirand said:

Do you have an official statement from Majestic that their Dash-400 will be fully compatible with 6.0 outside that we have seen a picture with a 6.0 option in the installer?

Actually yes on their page http://majesticsoftware.com/mjc8q400/products.html

check supported platforms. Me think the Dash will be easy cause visually its a stoneage pre p3d model and all the magic is done outside. So Majestic will just simply don't take care of changes (or needs to). Don't know about the Visual Extension package though. It actually made it a lot more enjoyable in v5.

Cheers T.

[David Vega 348]

It's sad to see the disappointment in most of these posts about PMDG's position on P3Dv6. I'm also disappointed but not surprised. It would've been nice to fly their products on P3Dv6, but at least their products still work with P3Dv5.4. I'm sure there are still captains flying their PMDG products on FSX. 

[Greggy_D 937]

I’d wager some simmer will have it working in v6 within half a days time.

[d.tsakiris 424]

15 minutes ago, Torsen said:

Me think the Dash will be easy cause visually its a stoneage pre p3d model and all the magic is done outside. So Majestic will just simply don't take care of changes (or needs to). Don't know about the Visual Extension package though. It actually made it a lot more enjoyable in v5.

Getting slightly off-topic now, but I don't see much of a difference (or any), visually or system-wise, between the Dash and PMDG's Boeings. I think the compatibility stems from the way Majestic realized their add-on. Doesn't PMDG also do certain things externally? Anyway, I think we will have to have some patience here.

[Luke 783]

21 minutes ago, Greggy_D said:

I’d wager some simmer will have it working in v6 within half a days time.

Sounds like a decent wager, if they haven't version locked it. And if they haven't, I'll wager you back that their "no more updates for P3D" stance will change to include a version lock. 😄

Cheers!

[omarsmak30 4,069]

3 hours ago, PavlinS said:

Because unlike most of the users of MSFS2020 we are devoted users from much longer and we invested a lot of money in that company. 

How did you reach this conclusion? 

[Stavros 295]

It's pretty obvious to me at least that there's really nothing LM can do for their consumer market at this point - they're stuck between a rock and a hard place:

Rock: Fixing any of the deep underlying issues with the ESP platform will break compatibility with addons and require significant work from their developers to get the addons that the sim *requires* to be playable at the level its users expect to work in a new version - but breaking compatibility will just mean developers focus on other platforms that already have a bigger user base and a growing addon marketplace.

Hard Place: Not fixing the deep underlying issues with ESP in order to maintain compatibility with all existing addons means the sim will continue to stagnate and fall behind the capabilities (both visual and in regards to deeper simulation) of other platforms, and developers will continue to focus on other platforms with newer technology and bigger playerbases.

V6 with Unreal Engine 5 was never going to be the answer, and V6 that was essentially just a V5.5 was also never going to be the answer.

That said, it seems like V6 has somehow managed to end up in the worst of both worlds camp - a big enough change to screw up compatibility with the most popular aircraft addons, yet not big enough to actually make a fundamental difference in how the sim looks, and the deeper simulation options it offers.

[UrgentSiesta 995]

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Today, I'm really pi***** off!

It's important to keep in mind that LM designs their simulator for the Commercial market, which has significantly different priorities than the Consumer market.

And this is okay because they haven't ever sold a Consumer version, right?

So, if v4 or v5 was good enough for serious desktop flight simulation, then they still are, right?

I mean, what version do you think the US military and all other customers are using right now...? It'll be quite some time before all those professional-grade simulators for IRL training are upgraded, and interoperability (i.e., Multi-Domain & Multi-User requirements demand true compatibility).

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Developpers are not here to make a sim attractive if the developper of the sim itself doesn't put a single effort.

See above.

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The only one we should blame is Lockheed Martin. Two months ago, there were heavy speculation about a 6.0 using Unreal Engine 5 which could push msfs to the dirt. Then by suprise 5.4 came out unexpected.

Actually, blame YOURSELF:

a. LM categorically stated that backwards compatibility was paramount and would continue on with the ESP engine.

b. Any speculation about v6 being Unreal based is rooted in fever dream ignorance of the realities of software development and compatibility.

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The promised holy land is honnestly pretty disapointing. It surely bring a lot more material for professional users, but on the entertainement side, the progress and innovations are really slims.

See above re LMs core customer base - it's not us. If you were expecting a competitor to MSFS, your expectations are the problem, not v6.

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And if it wasn't enough, despite those slim innovations, LM was not even able to bring an easy backward compatibility with 5.0. You just wonder what did they change to make our add-ons not easily compatible with such so few changes, not really visible on the screen? It seems that updating the products will require heavy work that nobody is willing to spend precious ressources on.

Your statement is the inverse of the truth. Any addons that don't work in v6 are a result of the highly customized extensions to P3D that the 3PDs developed. It's on the 3PDs to fix their own incompatibilities.

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Let's face it, P3D 6.0 is commercially dead on the entertainment side even before being officially released. Who is going to tell me that you are going to invest $60 in that new software on release day? As I said, LM is slowly preparing the user's minds that they will leave the entertainment market for good. Today, I'm really pi***** off!

See above re LMs core customer market. Remember: it's not Consumers - it's not you.

If the TRUE advantages of v6 are important you your simulation requirements, you'll upgrade. If not, then you need to stick to the version that does, or transition to a Consumer simulator that DOES align with your CONSUMER preferences.

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Today most users are stunned and already dreaming about a P3D 7.0, it says a lot. Honnestly, 7.0 is years away and now I'm not even sure there will be an entertainment version out of it

See above re Unrealistic Expectations. Those ostriches are the ONLY folks who are "already dreaming" of v7.

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About PMDG promises or the promises of the others developpers, I don't blame them. MSFS has it's flaws but on a sleepy entertainment market, it acted like a nuclear bomb and nothing was the same anymore as soon as it reached the market. Yesterday's promises had no sense anymore.

This is about the only thing you've gotten correct, except you're still not accepting responsibility for the Developers actions. It is WE, US, the Consumers, who abandoned P3D and all the 3PDs. WE, the Consumers, are ENTIRELY responsible for the current state of the sim & addons.

Face it: if your salary was cut by well over 80% because your customers stopped buying your company's products, you'd have to go find another job. Right?

That's what WE forced all the 3PDs to do - NOT Lockheed Martin.

Edited July 3, 2023 by UrgentSiesta
orig quote

[Juliett Alfa Romeo 574]

Only one or two talked about v7, it wasn't a general thing...

[ZLA Steve 377]

13 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

*everything above

I wish I could both like and upvote this response.
Nailed it.

Edited July 3, 2023 by ZLA Steve

[jcomm 6,096]

We do not, yet, know any specific details about P3dv6 regarding, for instance, the FM.

I was thinking to myself why would they "risk" losing the mainstream developers by creating this new version apparently not backward compatible. 

What I have read from posts at the FSLABS and now PMDG message boards is that porting their aircraft to the new version of P3D wouldn't be a simple task.

At first I thought it was probably due to interface modifications, integration with the virtual Planet Earth, maybe even simply 3d modelling incompatibility, but then it came to my mind - what if they actually changed something in the flight dynamics, towards a more sophisticated engine?

If that was the case and they made available the necessary information about what changed I might well consider P3D v6 again. After all P3D v5 is still a great platform when used with the best addon aircraft, wearther injectors, scenery addons, etc... so, P3D v6 with a new FDM, taken steps forward from the legacy FM, could be a very interesting platform for me to try as well. After all it'll surely not be before MFS 2024 that I'll feel happy with the flight dynamics in MFS...

Edited July 3, 2023 by jcomm