6 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

TLOD values higher than 200 cause stutters no matter what CPU you have.

You are wrong mate 😉 

3 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

It has to be added though that setting any FPS limit only works with a GSync monitor. If you don't have a GSync monitor you need to choose the monitor refresh rate or a divisor thereof, so for example 30 FPS for a 60Hz monitor. Otherwise you can get VSync stutters.

That's not true, the "Vsync stutters" part, when RTSS is used as I described using front or back edge sync.  However, Gsync can help minimize or eliminate a migrating tear line that can happen w/ that method.  Until I bought a Gsync monitor I just put up with the tear line because the lovely ultra low FTV delivered smoothest animation at modest frame rates among all other methods to sync and limit frames.

19 minutes ago, TENPATROL said:

You are wrong mate 😉 

I like it when people argue with such exhaustive information and evidence for the benefit of the entire forum 🙂

7 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

I like it when people argue with such exhaustive information and evidence for the benefit of the entire forum 🙂

I can fly over the Sahara desert in my Cessna 152 with T-Lod 400, so it is possible 😄

10 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

I like it when people argue with such exhaustive information and evidence for the benefit of the entire forum 🙂

And you also know, given that MSFS has no real built in benchmark, it's all vague, anecdotal performance numbers people manage to whip up, that we just have to take at face value.

As for me, I simply can't enjoy flying without a TLOD of 350. I have tried to use lower settings, but the excessive popping in/out of scenery, especially buildings at long range and huge swaths of forest depending on where you are flying, just kills it for me. I would rather have a steady frame rate in the low 30's and tolerate the occasional "skip" than deal with the scenery popping.

One example: flying in to Honolulu or even Ford Island if in something low and slow, coming around the southwest corner of Oahu, you see Honolulu in the distance and Diamondhead. With low TLOD you'll see Diamondhead all right because terrain is always depicted far out in the sim. As for skyscrapers however, you will see very few at first and as you get closer they start popping in. Just can't stand that... I once posted a long time ago on a thread similar to this one that they could make the TLOD issue less invasive if they would have skyscrapers always appear at long distances like terrain does, even as "sticks" at first, and then gradually fill in the trees , other buildings and objects that appear as one got closer to them. This method would be so much more natural and less noticeable in my opinion and go a long way to mitigating the jarring effect of a low TLOD setting.

So, I settle for a high TLOD setting because that is what I find pleasing and acceptable, and have just started a "trick" to help deal with the high setting on approaches and arrival airports. It's a little invasive but seems to help, and that is when I get below a certain altitude I pause the sim, lower the TLOD to about 100, and then finish my flight. Afterwards, I reset to my preferred setting for the next flight. Makes the approach and taxi in a little smoother.

As someone else mentioned this is where a dynamic TLOD setting would be great and actually makes a lot of sense. Perhaps having the sim code accomplish this isn't feasible, but I can't imagine why. 

Anyway, my two cents on the TLOD issue and how I deal with it. We're all different and what is acceptable to one doesn't always apply to someone else. One thing is for sure, I think we all love MSFS for what it is and what it allows us to do, which is to enjoy flying at home virtually. 😊

1 hour ago, Noel said:

That's not true, the "Vsync stutters" part, when RTSS is used as I described using front or back edge sync.  However, Gsync can help minimize or eliminate a migrating tear line that can happen w/ that method.  Until I bought a Gsync monitor I just put up with the tear line because the lovely ultra low FTV delivered smoothest animation at modest frame rates among all other methods to sync and limit frames.

Yes, I was referring to having VSync on. On my non-GSync 55 inch TV the screen tearing without VSync is quite disturbing to me.

3 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Yes, I was referring to having VSync on. On my non-GSync 55 inch TV the screen tearing without VSync is quite disturbing to me.

Yes, I was referring to your comment about 'stutters'.

To the original poster, limit your frames rate to 40, you will no longer see this FPS shift and thus it's associated 'stutter'.  It will be very smooth.

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by Mike S KPDX

9 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

TLOD values higher than 200 cause stutters no matter what CPU you have. 

I can play with TLOD 200 / Ultra settings and virtually never see a stutter with my 7800X3D.

For a long time 200 was the maximum TLOD allowed without tampering with the config file, then Asobo increased the slider at 400 because of people request. The aim was to recover what was lost with SU5 in terms of draw distance / graphics, however there were other issues as well (color depth and banding, grainy clouds, TAA degradation) and having SU5 greatly improved performance, the stutters caused by higher TLODs became even more evident, as they are today...

We never got back completely what was lost with the XBox release.

My suggestion is to stick with 200 and forget it.

 

I haven't had my 7800x3D long enough to say, but so far, it seems stutter free at TLOD 300.  However, keep in mind, I've only been testing things one at a time. When you pile on a complex aircraft, an elaborate scenery file, FSLTL, some interesting live weather, and night lighting, all with TLOD 300 or 400, you're going to be hammering your CPU so hard, that I'm sure you're right. But it is possible to have a stutter free high LOD experience if you don't overload your 7800x3D with other tasks... at least that's my observation so far.

The key difference I've noticed with TLOD settings is the distance at which things are drawn and pop in. Thus it's a trade off between immersion breaking pop-in, and performance.  Everyone's going to have their sweet spot. I prefer higher immersion and will live with the occasional stutter if I have to.

8 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Thanks for taking the time to do this Chris.  Ignore the negative comments.  If they are fine with their performance then good luck to them.  We all have different expectations.

I have never seen the LODs quantified before in terms of effect on FPS, so that is useful, but I have heard object LOD isn't so bad, it is mainly terrain LOD that causes the drop.
I don't suppose you had time to separate them?

And just to say the 10 FPS drop with FSLTL would be expected, although once again it can depend on how many aircraft you generate, as this can be reduced (I take it you were on default settings?).

At the moment I am getting 'skipping' every 20-30 seconds or so, probably due to scenery loading I think, but my FPS isn't too bad. 
4k Ultra just holding 60 FPS.  SU13 beta.  As others have said, smoothness is the key, and we aren't quite there yet. 
Not sure if it is ever going to be possible with this sim architecture.  2024 sound more promising.

I did play around with Object LOD briefly, which according to a couple of videos I watched, affects ground object detail like baggage carts, the GA fuel pump, etc.  I think the reason why it's not as impactful, is that it's only relevant around airports, and it seems to have a limited draw range even at the highest Object LOD setting.  For example, I was at a local GA airport and used the drone camera to fly over to the GA gas pump. As you back away from it, it loses detail... the Object LOD setting dictates at what distance it loses detail. I found that the difference between say 100 and 200 was minor.  It's almost like the Object LOD setting is the distance at which the object becomes fully detailed... 100m or 200m. It really doesn't make much difference.

I was using FSLTL on default settings which seems like a good compromise but I'm open to what might be optimal settings there.

I don't know what CPU you have, but this 7800x3D really smoothed things out for me. My first indication was when I load into the sim at the end of the runway - ready to take off. As you know, the sim plays a sequence of exterior shots until you hit "ready to fly" and those were so smooth for the first time after switching to this CPU. Before it was jumpy, laggy, and a stutter-fest.

I really hope that the 2024 version brings better CPU utilization and multi-threading support. 

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

I will just ask are you sure the MSFS threads are running on cores 0-7 ? on my 7900x3d windows does not and never has parked the msfs cores on the  cache cores so you wont get the best performance.  I use Lasso to manually park msfs only to my cache cores which are 0-11 on the 700x3d... you get at least 20-30% main thread performance by doing this.  

8 hours ago, Ixoye said:

A big problem is that 3d party airport developers make their airports in such high quality that even the fastest cpu can't handle them, I also have a 7800X3D and experience the same problem.

Strangely, I noticed the same hit and impact on the sim and FPS loading the default Asobo CYVR airport vs a very nicely done 3rd party version (that even had the interior rendered). The added detail in the freeware add-on from Flightsim.to had zero impact on the sim and performance and looks 100x better.  It makes me think that the issue is loading the higher LOD version of the airport on final and all the objects that come with it - that is what is the real impact is... not the actual rendering of it.  Whether the sim renders a crappy looking airport or a nice looking one, it's the same amount of work. The real problem is loading it. At least that's my impression. 🙂

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

2 minutes ago, wiler said:

I will just ask are you sure the MSFS threads are running on cores 0-7 ? on my 7900x3d windows does not and never has parked the msfs cores on the  cache cores so you wont get the best performance.  I use Lasso to manually park msfs only to my cache cores which are 0-11 on the 700x3d... you get at least 20-30% main thread performance by doing this.  

The 7800x3D doesn't require core gymnastics... it only has one set of cores.

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

9 hours ago, Paladin2005 said:

I enjoy the simulator as it is.

Sometimes 90 fps, sometimes 30 fps. I dont care to be honest, until it would stutter under 30 fps while on final approach. As long as its smooth, there is no need to know how many fps it generates.

Yeah, waste of time. It's a sim. Not a benchmark. I tried a few scenarios with the Fenix. In DX 11 with everything set on high, high cockpit gauge refresh rate, LOD 150 I get between 30 and 50 fps and few stutters. 

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by Ricardo41