1 hour ago, tup61 said:

B-ATC will NOT have a subscription model

No it will just require ongoing payments to continue to use the product after a certain point.

That's TOTALLY different.

5 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

Fair play to the developer for wanting to make the effort to control AI, I think for an ATC app that is absolutely necessary. 👍 Let's give them time to get to grips with it and see how it turns out.

As for the voices, generating AI ultra realistic ones is going to cost, there's no way around that for any ATC app.  The choice seems to be between using external addon voices like Ivona etc, or BATC's approach with the AI.

Just don't expect those AI voices to come totally for free, doing ATC is hard enough without adding AI voice generation to the skills and time required!

From how it reads to me, getting the base app and a level of ultra voice use depending on what you pay, and then ponying up extra as you use it, seems reasonable.  The real crux of the matter is how much time do you get initially, and how much does it cost additionally?  Then people can make an estimate of how much it may be likely to cost them and if they consider that good value for money.

BATC is shaking up the ATC app market, regardless of those answers, and that's undoubtedly a good thing 😄

 

This was just posted on the BATC Discord when the Captain was talking about what it currently costs for voice time.  He said this is not the price we would pay but I think it gives you a decent idea on potential pricing.

 

Quote

It's about 15 dollars for one million characters of speaking. Each flight will take between 5k and 50k characters depending on the level of traffic you use. That's for the standard model.

[9:11 AM]

That's not what we will sell it for, that's what the service sells it for.

https://discord.com/channels/1082413096045391915/1117856079527804999/1157681066044301322
 

So at the high end of usage that's ~20 Flights per million characters (and presumably fewer flights if we use the premium voices.)

I'm guessing an option to use offline SAPI voices doesn't fit their business model.

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by Matchstick

Just now, Matchstick said:

So at the high end of usage that's ~20 Flights for $15 (and presumably fewer flights if we use the premium voices.)

 

Yep,  for what he was saying that going to be between 20 - 200 flights for the standard voices.   It's going to be interesting to see when official numbers are released on how feasible this approach will be for people.

 

Someone did recently bring up to them the option of using SAPI voices as an additional option but they shot that down.  Personally, after years of using P2ATC with IVONA voices, I'm use to them and wouldn't mind using them with this.  I think having 3 options for voices could be a good idea.  

• SAPI - $
• Standard AI Voices - $$
• Premium AI Voices - $$$

 

1 minute ago, ShadowN7 said:

Yep,  for what he was saying that going to be between 20 - 200 flights for the standard voices.   It's going to be interesting to see when official numbers are released on how feasible this approach will be for people.

 

Someone did recently bring up to them the option of using SAPI voices as an additional option but they shot that down.  Personally, after years of using P2ATC with IVONA voices, I'm use to them and wouldn't mind using them with this.  I think having 3 options for voices could be a good idea.  

• SAPI - $
• Standard AI Voices - $$
• Premium AI Voices - $$$

 

I'll be honest I see them wanting to make money by selling the credits at a markup and rejecting offline voices solely for that reason.

57 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

So at the high end of usage that's ~20 Flights per million characters (and presumably fewer flights if we use the premium voices.)

I'm guessing an option to use offline SAPI voices doesn't fit their business model.

Uh that would mean it's AT LEAST 15 dollars per 20 flights (because they said that's what they pay for the voices, our price will even be higher because of taxes etc.). That's outrageous. They can't be serious about that.

1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

I'll be honest I see them wanting to make money by selling the credits at a markup and rejecting offline voices solely for that reason.

It is the way business works, but awfully expensive at the high end of usage. Some will no doubt pay, but at that sort of cost they will have shrunk their market considerably.

For those arguing whether or not it's a subscription - it's an ongoing cost, some will see it as that (just data based rather than time), some won't it's just semantics. If the word offends then call it a data plan, it's no more palatable. 

G

$15 a month, min, and lets take the under at ~20 flights, give or take, is World of Warcraft sub pricing levels. My Volanta and Navigraphs subs cost a little less, and both of those solutions solve a problem for me close to perfectly. And even then, my $15 a month doesn't have a cap on how long I can use the service. I fly more than 20 fights a month, so this could be a $30 cost.

If you run the in-game ATC with FSLTL, you willl get a good idea for just how much chatter there is if you inject traffic. Now, the meter will be running for each flight, and who knows if it will truly solve the ATC problem better than some of the one-time-cost ATC programs.

Now, if I want a realistic flight on a busy corridor, I need to essentially add $2-3 each flight.

2 hours ago, Matchstick said:

I'll be honest I see them wanting to make money by selling the credits at a markup and rejecting offline voices solely for that reason.

The B-ATC devs don't make any money from you buying voice credits. The money goes towards the third party service providing the voices.

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

21 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

$15 a month, min, and lets take the under at ~20 flights, give or take, is World of Warcraft sub pricing levels. My Volanta and Navigraphs subs cost a little less, and both of those solutions solve a problem for me close to perfectly. And even then, my $15 a month doesn't have a cap on how long I can use the service. I fly more than 20 fights a month, so this could be a $30 cost.

If you run the in-game ATC with FSLTL, you willl get a good idea for just how much chatter there is if you inject traffic. Now, the meter will be running for each flight, and who knows if it will truly solve the ATC problem better than some of the one-time-cost ATC programs.

Now, if I want a realistic flight on a busy corridor, I need to essentially add $2-3 each flight.

Been using PF3 for years. Just got another update, and I have lost count of how many times it has been updated. Money spent on the 100 + controller voices.  Zero....

5 hours ago, tup61 said:

As has been posted numerous times before: B-ATC will NOT have a subscription model. How hard is that to understand...? You only pay for a certain amount of 'voice time' if you want it and need it. Subscriptions always are regular payments regardless of how much you use the service. This will not be the case with B-ATC. You only pay for what you actually use and and need and for a lot of people this may mean they might have to pay a reasonable fee once a year or so while some other will never have to pay anything (because of for instance low usage of the addon). With a subscription you pay every month even if you don't use the service.

It's also been made clear the dev will NOT benefit from these payments: the only benefit will come from selling the addon. The payment for the voices will simply be what those voices cost and nothing more.

Hi,

 

You can play semantics on the word subscription all day long. Bottom line, you'll have to pony up additional C A S H WHEN you run out of voice time.

Sounding more like a no go for me as well. Still have no answer on how the end user will be able to keep track of the voice time used. Those questions on discord seem to get ignored time and time again. 

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

The B-ATC devs don't make any money from you buying voice credits. The money goes towards the third party service providing the voices.

So you know what they will be charging then ?

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

The B-ATC devs don't make any money from you buying voice credits. The money goes towards the third party service providing the voices.

Hi,

So if they realize that they have too much cash due to so many users enjoying BATC, they will lower their price if they start making too much cash????? Find that EXTREMELY hard to believe now a days! 

44 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Hi,

So if they realize that they have too much cash due to so many users enjoying BATC, they will lower their price if they start making too much cash????? Find that EXTREMELY hard to believe now a days! 

Mike, it will be what it will be.  It's good they are providing the option for the pay to use voices.  It's a commercial decision the devs need to make, in their interests not anyone else's.  If they set a certain price point and there are enough people who are willing to pay, whether you think any price is fair or not is quite immaterial.  Welcome to capitalism baby!  At the end of the day, either do without, pay up, or see if any of the other alternatives suit you better.  Choice is good.

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by kevinfirth

All Ai voice programs on the internet pretty much have some sort of subscription now.