1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

No it isn't. Subscription has a specific definition that this doesn't meet.

Please look up the definition of the word.

I posted this above

 

Hi,

 

I asked if there was going to be a hobbs meter so the user can keep track, I didn't get a response. I plan on using BATC for my transmissions and use FSATC Canned ATC in the background. I can only imagine what the hobbs meter would be doing at a very busy airport with AI going back and forth with transmissions.

I guess I'm surprised at this point that there aren't decent voice packs available to be bundled ?  Maybe they should implement this IRL to cut down on unnecessary comms. 😁

Feature creep is setting in. We'll never see this thing...😄

4 minutes ago, b1bmsgt said:

Feature creep is setting in. We'll never see this thing...😄

I agree, pretty soon people will be demanding controllers should be 😉asking for smoke breaks... 

Yeah, even what has been shown is releasable ..  I guess they want the AI control down to a T, which is going to take a long time.  But it'll be a drag waiting and waiting for this.  

I have been a little leery of this project since the get go.  Normally, I'm overly optimistic about everything.  Something is just off with this project.

How much will BeyondATC cost?
Our pricing model is still being determined, but at present we expect to sell BeyondATC for a base price which will include the full program and time for both Premium and Standard voice models. Each time a voice is generated using BeyondATC, time is used up from your voice total. If you need to top up your voice time, we will sell additional voice time in packages. We do this because the voice services being used cost money per request, and as such we cannot provide this as an ongoing free service. At present, it is NOT planned to sell BeyondATC as a subscription service.

"voice services being used cost money per request, and as such we cannot provide this as an ongoing free service."

I keep reading that over and over again.  

So premium and standard will cost different amounts to "top up our voice time?"

Anyone remember buying Aerosoft AES credits?

4 hours ago, aniiran said:

I have been a little leery of this project since the get go.  Normally, I'm overly optimistic about everything.  Something is just off with this project.

It's hard to know yet without the pricing to be honest, the cynic in me does think "no wonder they want to control the AI!" though.....

I'll wait until it's released and the pricing is out, but never ever been keen on stuff  with an ongoing cost... took me long enough to get Navigraph. 

 

G

Fair play to the developer for wanting to make the effort to control AI, I think for an ATC app that is absolutely necessary. 👍 Let's give them time to get to grips with it and see how it turns out.

As for the voices, generating AI ultra realistic ones is going to cost, there's no way around that for any ATC app.  The choice seems to be between using external addon voices like Ivona etc, or BATC's approach with the AI.

Just don't expect those AI voices to come totally for free, doing ATC is hard enough without adding AI voice generation to the skills and time required!

From how it reads to me, getting the base app and a level of ultra voice use depending on what you pay, and then ponying up extra as you use it, seems reasonable.  The real crux of the matter is how much time do you get initially, and how much does it cost additionally?  Then people can make an estimate of how much it may be likely to cost them and if they consider that good value for money.

BATC is shaking up the ATC app market, regardless of those answers, and that's undoubtedly a good thing 😄

 

A clear no buy then.

It is fair, they clearly state for what the money is for, and it just shows the "issue" of cloud services. How much it will be and how long it will last...let's see. If it's too much I'm sure they will find alternatives (because people will stop buying it).

I'm personally really looking forward for it and can't wait to try it out.

I don't really see the benefit of AI voices in comparison to the very very high costs for the user. From what I've gathered it's just the voice, not the actual text/instruction that's AI generated. It'd be much easier to use like 10 solid preset voices (with different accents like spanish, asian etc.) and use those instead, so the program would have a normal price but no subscription. It feels like B2ATC chose the cloud voices just for the sake of being able to have a subscription model (it's common knowledge that a subscription model gives higher and steadier income).

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

It feels like B2ATC chose the cloud voices just for the sake of being able to have a subscription model (it's common knowledge that a subscription model gives higher and steadier income).

As has been posted numerous times before: B-ATC will NOT have a subscription model. How hard is that to understand...? You only pay for a certain amount of 'voice time' if you want it and need it. Subscriptions always are regular payments regardless of how much you use the service. This will not be the case with B-ATC. You only pay for what you actually use and and need and for a lot of people this may mean they might have to pay a reasonable fee once a year or so while some other will never have to pay anything (because of for instance low usage of the addon). With a subscription you pay every month even if you don't use the service.

It's also been made clear the dev will NOT benefit from these payments: the only benefit will come from selling the addon. The payment for the voices will simply be what those voices cost and nothing more.

4 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

The choice seems to be between using external addon voices like Ivona etc, or BATC's approach with the AI.

Just don't expect those AI voices to come totally for free, doing ATC is hard enough without adding AI voice generation to the skills and time required!

Actually, to be more precise, B-ATC is using external addon voices. That's what you have to pay for every now and then. They aren't creating their own voice service or something like that. They are using various existing paid online services and simply forward the cost to the user.

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by tup61

49 minutes ago, tup61 said:

As has been posted numerous times before: B-ATC will NOT have a subscription model. How hard is that to understand...? You only pay for a certain amount of 'voice time' if you want it and need it. Subscriptions always are regular payments regardless of how much you use the service. This will not be the case with B-ATC. You only pay for what you actually use and and need and for a lot of people this may mean they might have to pay a reasonable fee once a year or so while some other will never have to pay anything (because of for instance low usage of the addon). With a subscription you pay every month even if you don't use the service.

It's also been made clear the dev will NOT benefit from these payments: the only benefit will come from selling the addon. The payment for the voices will simply be what those voices cost and nothing more.

I misread that, you are right, my fault. I‘m still really sceptical about having to pay per usage (in essence), I mean imagine paying per flight in MSFS. In the end, while on the surface improving customer choice, those things always end up costing more for frequent users in the long run. Let‘s make a simple calculation: a) Let‘s say B2ATC costs 40 dollars and you as a user end up paying 20 dollars for voice time per year.
b) Now let‘s say B2ATC had 10 default voices shipped with it, but would cost a massive 80 dollars, but without any voice time purchases.
With option a) in only 2 years I would already de facto be in a subscription model, if you get what I mean, albeit a bit more flexible in that it‘s per usage and not per month.
In the end this is good for the devs (who attract more customers with a lower „starting price“) and users who actually stop using it after a while (and therefore do not reach the 80 dollars within 2 years via voice time purchases). But - and this is important - the actual target group, the actual regular customers, the frequent users - they all end up paying more than they would have in a normal purchase model. Tldr: Those pricing models do NOT benefit the actual user base.

That said, it does depend a lot on the actual pricing. If it was 10 dollars entry and 2 dollars per year for voices, the calculation would be very different, of course.

(Please don‘t start with „the dev needs continuous income to survive“ etc.; that‘s frankly nothing but a lopsided, highly dependent relationship using the customer‘s previous investment as a pressure medium. Devs do these pricing models to maximize profit, which is fine, but let‘s not frame this as a charity kind of thing. It‘s business, after all)