44 minutes ago, Noel said:

No need to use Process Lasso which turned out not to be needed.

So, basically, all I need is to set RTSS according to your thread (front edge sync, passive waiting), Render Scaling=100, VRR (GSync/FreeSync) enabled in my monitor and GPU, and Low Latency set to Ultra in NCP.

Then,if I don't want to bother with CapFrameX, I can do a quick check by setting MSI Afterburner so that it shows FPS (current, average and 1% min) values and frametime curves, just as below:

On 10/22/2023 at 7:30 PM, MrBitstFlyer said:

By using MSI Afterburner/Rivertuner, FPS and FTV can be displayed in an overlay on MSFS.

What scenarios do you use for tuning your sim for keeping that low FTV, @Noel? And also, how did you set FSLTL up? Despite being CPU-limited, changing TLOD and OLOD does nothing for me, so AI and the plane I fly should be the problem.

 

52 minutes ago, Luis Hernandez said:

So, basically, all I need is to set RTSS according to your thread (front edge sync, passive waiting), Render Scaling=100, VRR (GSync/FreeSync) enabled in my monitor and GPU, and Low Latency set to Ultra in NCP.

Then,if I don't want to bother with CapFrameX, I can do a quick check by setting MSI Afterburner so that it shows FPS (current, average and 1% min) values and frametime curves, just as below:

What scenarios do you use for tuning your sim for keeping that low FTV, @Noel? And also, how did you set FSLTL up? Despite being CPU-limited, changing TLOD and OLOD does nothing for me, so AI and the plane I fly should be the problem.

 

You got it, but CFX is really a nice program, lean, a quick F11 to start capture and I highly recommend it.  With it you're going to get the entire capture which I typically from end of pushback to 15K feet, whereas doing a "quick check" can't possibly be the same.   All settings on Ultra, FSLTL I have very limited to something around 6 to 8 in a 40km radius I forget now.  It's all the system can cope with well.  I'm in PMDG 738 and FBW 320Nx most of the time, in and out of all airports.  For the most complex airports I've on occasion gone down to 30FPS, but mostly it's 33/34.   If you set it up correctly as described you can use your +/- keys to inc/dec FPS lock.

As I was reading your note I was landing at Haneda, RJTT, in PMDG 738.  This is a ginormous metro area.  From just before landing to a very long taxi, here is the capture.  Very good but the stress of this scenario degrades perfection some for sure, but it's below the radar anyway:

Edited October 24, 20232 yr by Noel

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

It doesn't. 

Maybe that's because of what CptPiett discovered:  FG did not generate this kind of ultra low FTV at all.  But as said, when frame rate is high enough you may not notice it.

21 hours ago, Noel said:

No need to use Process Lasso which turned out not to be needed.  The basics are ultra simple to setup, in fact anyone here with top end hardware can certainly try it and see if it adds anything or not.  An FTV capture takes this out of the realm of subjective so feel free to do that as well--takes all of a few minutes to install and use.  If you decide to do this standardize it by do a reboot of your PC then proceed ahead so nothing linger interferes w/ outcome.  When I did all the testing on other methods this is what I did.

Thanks, Noel. I'm going to give this a go over the coming days. I'll report back.

There are too many people comparing apples to oranges in this thread, so there will always be a difference of opinion, especially when an individuals tolerance of low frame rates comes into it.

All I can say is that I had 30fps super smooth in the sim when I looked left and right in the quick views, it was tolerable for me.

I now have the hardware able to run 60fps (matched to settings sympathetic to this frame rate), and firstly, I need it due to using a head tracker, and secondly I love it and will not be going back.

I don't understand why people say there is very little difference, when there obviously, obviously is (to me at least). 
But if people only have the hardware / settings to achieve 30fps smooth, then that is just great, and it is still not a bad place to be in a sim that looks so good. 
I know a lot of us struggled for years to get a smooth 30fps in FSX / P3D etc.  That was the holy grail - then.

Just a comment on the 'human eye can only perceive [enter your figure here]'.  This is nonsense. The levels of 24 Hz quoted are just plain wrong and based on misinterpreted comments passed by the movie industry as mentioned previously.  But also, it can vary from person to person as well, just like hearing perception.  If ever you watch a movie in 24 frames then watch one filmed on a fast cam on a new telly at 100-120Hz, is is like night and day.  If you don't see it, then you have a lower visual threshold to enable you to see the Hz change, and there is nothing you can do about it.

The upper range of human hearing is supposed to be up to about 20-22kHz, but the audio industry noticed that 48kHz, and even 96kHz sounded better, because of something called overtones that effect the lower frequencies of the music and add a transformation to it that basically makes it sound richer.  This can happen visually as well.

Another factor to consider is when people used 50 / 60 Hz CRT monitors years ago.  I had to go around and change everyone's monitor refresh to 75 / 80 Hz where they were capable in Windows.  Some people complained at the one minute inconvenience to do this (some people get possessive over their work PC's don't they! 😀).

Some tried to put me off by saying they didn't see any flickering, but when it was done and they had the higher Hz for a few days, people were spotting the lower Hz on other PCs that hadn't been adjusted yet.  They could clearly see the difference by then, so basically I am saying it is what the eye gets used to as well.

 

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by bobcat999

If you have a smooth flight over terrain including large cities but experience some stutters on final :

First lower your object LOD. This loads objects in the distance. You do not want hundreds of containers being loaded just before touchdown. 

If that is not enough lower your traffic  : first car traffic and if needed AI ac traffic

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by GSalden

2 hours ago, El Diablito said:

Thanks, Noel. I'm going to give this a go over the coming days. I'll report back.

Can't hurt, easy and quick to try.  Use the realtime ability to change FPS lock on the fly as you experiment with it, mentioned I think towards the end of my original post.  Good luck!

59 minutes ago, GSalden said:

First lower your object LOD. This loads objects in the distance. You do not want hundreds of containers being loaded just before touchdown. 

I've always noted lower O-LOD has little to no impact on main thread demand and assumed the now quite rare hesitation prior to TD has more to do with bandwidth so this recommendation makes sense in this context.  I will try lowering to 150 as I know for certain I won't see anything different other than perhaps lose that hesitation.  Thanks!

1 hour ago, bobcat999 said:

I don't understand why people say there is very little difference, when there obviously, obviously is (to me at least). 

I think a good part of this is how one uses the sim.  I can easily see the difference between 33 (my ideal minimum base rate) and 60 but in reality that is primarily when I do artificial maneuvers to tease out the difference.  For example if I'm in the 738 cockpit, press the middle mouse button down, and very rapidly move from side to side there is for certain a difference, as should be fully expected because we're at point-blank range from the surfaces in the cockpit relative to eye point.  Fortunately I never need to do this during flight.  "Normal" panning is virtually indistinguishable and that is a function of how much lateral motion is occurring per second.  It's easy to imagine the ultra rapid pan test at a frame rate of 120 will be distinguishable over 60, but again, just doesn't come into play in the course of normal flight and use.

See :

 

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by GSalden

Double post 

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by GSalden

Here is a good article about FTV v FPS and their respective roles in the perception of smooth animation.  Quite clearly the true Holy Grail for all users is ultra low FTV at highest frame rate as addresses both important elements.  User CptPiett before he disappeared kindly ran an FTV test using Frame Generation, and it wasn't great.  I have no idea if that is a side effect of FG, or something was amiss in how he was setup, or any other of several possible explanations.  I've asked others to try my syncing method along with FG, which CptPiett did not do, and see what happens, capturing with CapFrameX to take it out of the realm of placebo/subjective.

What is frame time, and why is it so important in games? | Digital Trends

9 minutes ago, Noel said:

explanations.  I've asked others to try my syncing method along with FG, which CptPiett did not do, and see what happens, capturing with CapFrameX to take it out of the realm of placebo/subjective.

There is absolutely no need for anyone to do this. Just read the forum, 90% of people that use FG don’t even bother to look at numbers any more. Those days of tweaking are over. FG revolutionised simming. There is nothing placebo about it, and quite frankly, it’s simply brilliant. Any layman can notice the difference. 

Edited October 25, 20232 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

Just uploaded :

 

 

4 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Just uploaded :

 

 

This doesn’t exist on windows 11, and I remember back in 10 that this made no difference according to devs I’m sure.