3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Learned something new today re: dew point. So, humidity right now in Singapore is very high (which I guess it is most of the time)

Correct. Being so close to the Equator and with ample rainfall, conditions are perfect for high humidity. Currently in my garden it’s 12.9°C but the dew point is just 3.0°C That makes the air very dry and humidity is 50%. But an air temperature of 30°C with 50% humidity would be very uncomfortable. Humidity levels in deserts are around 10% or less.

Check my readings here. https://www.cheadlehulmeweather.co.uk/trends.htm

1 hour ago, MarcG said:

Historical Weather is a godsend, why oh why Jorg & his team couldn't get their heads around this I'll never know, fingers crossed for MSFS2024 eh!?

Historical weather would be an impossibility in MSFS native Live Weather which is based on a model created by MeteoBlue. The model contains data for the entire atmosphere of the earth, from the surface to the stratosphere, and is available to any MSFS client. The entire model is not streamed to end-users - only the data that applies within a certain radius of the user’s current location, but the entire model does “live” on the Azure servers.

I don’t know how large the entire NEMS 30 global model is, but based on work I have done with the NOAA GFS model (outside of flight simulation) it is probably many many gigabytes in size. 

Let us assume for the sake of argument that a single model run is 30GB in size. 

It’s not that MeteoBlue does not have archives of previous model runs - I am sure they do, going back many years. But consider what would have to happen if a single MSFS user wanted historical weather data for a specific date - say January 16th 2017. Azure would have to reserve space on their servers for 30 GB of data, then put in a request to MeteoBlue to stream the entire 16JAN17 model run to Azure. That model would then have to be post-processed to put it into a form that MSFS can use. All this to suit the needs of a single MSFS user looking for historical weather!
 

Multiply that by hundreds of of MSFS clients all asking for historical weather for different dates, and you can see the problem. Even if Azure has virtually unlimited storage space to hold model data, I doubt that MeteoBlue has the capacity to support constant “pull” requests for historical model data. And who would pay for that? I imagine that the contract between Microsoft and MeteoBlue specifies that MB will provide “x” number of model updates to Azure each day for a certain price. There would be no provision for constant, unending requests for model data for previous runs.

Historical METAR data is another matter, and there would be no problem for a weather engine based ONLY on METAR to obtain that. Historical METARS are readily available from the NOAA and other sources, and are supplied in the form of a simple text file, which in compressed form would probably be only a few dozen kilobytes in size. 

Current or historical GFS model data from the NOAA can also be pulled from https://nomads.ncep.noaa.gov but typically clients who do that are not receiving the entire worldwide model, but a limited subset of model data in GRIB format, covering a particular geographic location. The file sizes are typically quite small. X-Plane does this for providing current winds aloft data from the GFS model

LiveWeather using MeteoBlue worldwide model data was simply never designed or intended to support historical weather. It is not that Microsoft does not recognize why customers would want this feature, but they made a design decision on how the MSFS weather system was going to work in the early stages of the sim’s development that precludes any possibility of providing historical weather data.

That said, it might be possible to provide data for other than the current time within a particular day, since a single model run should contain worldwide forecast data for 24 discrete one hour periods. That would probably suit the needs of MSFS pilots who simply want weather appropriate to the location and time of day they are flying. Perhaps they might implement something like that in FS2024.

 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Almost finished reading through the whole manual. Some very interesting features:

I’m no MSFS weather expert, but AFAIK many of the AS features are not available with default weather.

Testing the various AS options will surely take some time, but I’m tempted to make a first impressions video after I’m finished reading the manual (still haven’t had a chance to use AS).

 

Pretty sure they are, saw them show off the wind models in a development update video, where you could see the winds and thermals rise up the side of a mountain. Don't buy into all these fancy features like they aren't part of the default sim, if the base SDK and functionality wasn't there in a locked down API, no third party would be able to magically add it.

5 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

I don't get it: wasn' the big thing with MSFS that you could see the live weather in the distance? Now we're back to hammering the sim with presets, just like in FSX and P3D? Except for historical weather, what does this bring to the table that REX Weather Force doesn't, and how does this improve the Live Weather experience in MSFS?

The ActiveSky release give you features not present in default live weather.  However, if you want to fly with a local weather model, you still can!

I don't understand this negativity towards weather add-ons because they use a global model. You have the best of both worlds - MSFS local weather model with the world full of cumulus and unrealistic turbulence, or an addon like AS that displays many more cloudtypes and has better turbulence effects.

Edited April 21, 20242 yr by MrBitstFlyer

3 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

<snip>

I was more referring to their inability to understand what it was we were asking for, more than the actual methods used to potentially have Historical Weather.

30 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Correct. Being so close to the Equator and with ample rainfall, conditions are perfect for high humidity. Currently in my garden it’s 12.9°C but the dew point is just 3.0°C That makes the air very dry and humidity is 50%. But an air temperature of 30°C with 50% humidity would be very uncomfortable. Humidity levels in deserts are around 10% or less.

Check my readings here. https://www.cheadlehulmeweather.co.uk/trends.htm

And across the border in Shropshire, my Vantage Pro 2 is saying 13.8C with a dew point of 2.8 C Humidity 47.2%.

Stu

7 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I was more referring to their inability to understand what it was we were asking for, more than the actual methods used to potentially have Historical Weather.

Yes, thankfully all these speculations and excuses given on the forums why MS/Asobo either are technically unable or legally not allowed to implement historical weather are a moot point now that we finally have a working decent historical weather in MSFS.

Still it would be nice of course to make full use of the potential of MSFS weather with historical weather and other features introduced by third parties like Active Sky, but I don't expect that to ever happen. They just have other priorities. We must be happy if they don't block out Active Sky completely in the future.

 

2 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I was more referring to their inability to understand what it was we were asking for, more than the actual methods used to potentially have Historical Weather.

I think they understand perfectly well what people want in terms of historical weather, but since providing that would be an absolute impossibility the way that Live Weather is currently designed, they are probably not interested in pursuing a conversation on the matter. No matter how much people might want it, there is no way they can ever provide it.

The exception would be the thing I mentioned at the end of my post. Each model run does contain data for one full day, and it would probably not be too difficult to stream forecast data for the local time that a user has set within MSFS, rather than the current GMT time. A complication though would be getting the appropriate METAR data for other than the current GMT time.

9 hours ago, Cognita said:

Isn't that impossible? I thought dew point was the temperature at which you get condensation, how could it be higher than the air temperature.(A genuine question coming from someone without a lot of weather knowledge, but trying to learn)

 

8 hours ago, vgbaron said:

no, it can be that way, if the DP is the same or higher the air is saturated and you'll get condensation or fog etc.

As Ray and others have accuately pointed out, humidity above 100% cannot be measured or then exceeded.  DP is a function of math with factors of temp and humidity.  Thus DP cannot be greater than the temp.

Let me bring this full circle.  The issue I was illustrating in my post is with MSFS live weather and/or MSFS ATIS/AWOS reports.  Over the now almost 4 years of MSFS, I do not recall hearing even once a reported DP other than either 10, or 12.  

On a day with very low humidity of 30% and a  surface temp of 70°F the DP would be in the mid-40°F range (30% @ 21°C the DP would be around 2.5°C). 

Yesterday in MSFS as I acquired ATIS on approach to KLGB, Long Beach, California, the temp was 68°F.  The local humidity was 58% (local weather report).  MSFS ATIS reported DP as "10" as it almost always does (MSFS reports12 in other cases). 

KLGB real time ATIS at the time reported a DP of 53°F, which was correct based on the temp and humidity.

Check out what occurs here if you attempt to use a humidity of >100%:
https://www.calculator.net/dew-point-calculator.html?airtemperature=68&airtemperatureunit=fahrenheit&humidity=58&dewpoint=&dewpointunit=fahrenheit&x=Calculate

KLGB dial up ATIS/(AWOS after tower hours): 562-424-0572

Edited April 21, 20242 yr by fppilot

1 hour ago, Sethos said:

Pretty sure they are, saw them show off the wind models in a development update video, where you could see the winds and thermals rise up the side of a mountain. Don't buy into all these fancy features like they aren't part of the default sim, if the base SDK and functionality wasn't there in a locked down API, no third party would be able to magically add it.

I consider myself fairly unbiased at the moment. I agree that the implementation of thermals in MSFS is impressive, and I tested that when it became available using the various overlays.

I purchased AS, hoping that certain weather elements would be more realistic:

• cloud depiction, various cloud types (cirrus, stratus, towering cumulus, cumulonimbus etc)
• clear air turbulence 
• drafts
• wind shear
• fog / low visibility
• hurricanes, tropical storms
• Cloud turbulence 
• thunderstorms

It seems that so far the reports here on Avsim from people that have used AS, are positive. I’d like to hear opinions in particular from people with in-depth knowledge of meteorology, as well as RW pilots.

I’ve watched three YT videos; Q8 (the Fenix issues sort of ruined the video), Easy Jetsim Pilot and Overkill. The latter two did very limited testing. Overkill may have messed things up by not correctly “injecting” AS weather. He also chose a location without any mechanical or thermal turbulence i.e. he could have chosen a different location to better illustrate AS’ capabilities.

EDIT: Just watched the last part of Q8’s video where he compares AS to default weather, switching back and forth. Not sure if it’s recommended to do this based on the manual:

Quote

The weather conditions shown in MSFS weather toolbar menu is not expected to match ASFS weather (it is only accurate when you first open the weather toolbar menu and does not update until re-opened). Please do not change weather presets or enable live weather within MSFS itself, or ASFS control may be lost. Please allow ASFS to control the preset/live weather mode settings and all weather condition settings at all times while ASFS is running.

Also, Q8 compares AS to default at EGNX with input from someone who was there at the same time. There was quite a big difference between MSFS and AS. 2:23:30 https://www.youtube.com/live/cLGkIUG9MTE?si=WoImHm7dBxeGkzCz

(the person at the location, watching the stream, meant that AS’ representation was more accurate whereas MSFS was “overly dramatic”)

 

Edited April 21, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

38 minutes ago, pan pan pan said:

In the few years Ive had MSFS2020, first flight today with ActiveSky was the first experience with thunderstorms and lightning.

You must have missed the first year when every flight was one accompanied by thunderstorms and lightening! 

The default live weather has a great deal of potential. Those of us who have been flying in MSFS since the beginning have seen the varying cloud types, thunderstorms, with towering cells, and lightening all in what can be seen as an organic moving system. Unfortunately, in the early iterations there were a lot of complaints of global weather not matching perfectly micro-level weather conditions, at the level of an airfield. After a lot of vocal criticism, Asobo introduced METAR information and tried to blend it with their global model. This did help ensure the live weather model matched local reports, but it made the weather bland, generating essentially one cloud type and reducing the presence of storms and their effects. What is frustrating is that the sim is capable of these things but now we are in a position where we need to trade one strength for another.

Asobo seems to have abandoned efforts to improve weather in 2020. I suspect they have turned attention to 2024 and we can only hope that their being able to work offline they will come up with something that brings these strengths together.

wow this is an in depth discussion !

3 minutes ago, Cognita said:

You must have missed the first year when every flight was one accompanied by thunderstorms and lightening! 

 

Not JUST thunder and lightening...  Non-stop thunder and lightening the likes of which the world had never before seen....  Much akin to the first MSFS attempt at icing.

Edited April 21, 20242 yr by fppilot

11 minutes ago, Bunchy said:

And across the border in Shropshire, my Vantage Pro 2 is saying 13.8C with a dew point of 2.8 C Humidity 47.2%.

Stu

Check my lowest reading here. An almost unbelievable 17% in March 7 years ago. Wise choice with Davis. 👍

5 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

I think they understand perfectly well what people want in terms of historical weather, but since providing that would be an absolute impossibility the way that Live Weather is currently designed, they are probably not interested in pursuing a conversation on the matter. No matter how much people might want it, there is no way they can ever provide it.

The exception would be the thing I mentioned at the end of my post. Each model run does contain data for one full day, and it would probably not be too difficult to stream forecast data for the local time that a user has set within MSFS, rather than the current GMT time. A complication though would be getting the appropriate METAR data for other than the current GMT time.

Your explanation makes totally sense and this is not directed against your argument, but eventually I don't believe that they are just not able to. Where there's a will there's a way, in particular when you are Microsoft...