57 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

ATC isn't an afterthought, the AI is the afterthought.

They weren't even planning on adding AI until people started asking for it. They brought in a new dev specifically for the AI.

But all the focus has been on AI, ever since it was added. That is the problem.

 

14 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

But all the focus has been on AI, ever since it was added.

No it hasn't. The latest supporter update had a bunch of things unrelated to AI.

And the last public update also had a bunch of things unrelated to AI, since the public can't use it yet.

The AI also uses the same ATC we do, so if the ATC says something wrong it also effects the AI. 

Edited September 16, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

No it hasn't. The latest supporter update had a bunch of things unrelated to AI.

And the last public update also had a bunch of things unrelated to AI, since the public can't use it yet.

The AI also uses the same ATC we do, so if the ATC says something wrong it also effects the AI. 

Well I will try it again, but frankly, I am not expecting to see any improvement in the approaches. I will post if I do. 

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

An ATC program should be just that, not a Traffic control problem, with ATC as an afterthought.

It's not about what is more important. You have to have AI traffic in before fixing vectors etc. Otherwise you can start over right again when you add AI traffic to the equation.

As for doing AI traffic in general - this was highly requested so there's no debate on that.

25 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Well I will try it again, but frankly, I am not expecting to see any improvement in the approaches. I will post if I do. 

I think you're expecting it to be working flawlessly to use it regularly. That's fine, but that's not going to happen in Early Access. So you might just want to come back in like 6 months when it's out of early access. You'll still have the product you paid for, but you might enjoy it more then.

19 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I think you're expecting it to be working flawlessly to use it regularly. That's fine, but that's not going to happen in Early Access. So you might just want to come back in like 6 months when it's out of early access. You'll still have the product you paid for, but you might enjoy it more then.

No problem, and that is exactly what I was thinking. No rush to get it working. 

39 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I think you're expecting it to be working flawlessly to use it regularly. That's fine, but that's not going to happen in Early Access. So you might just want to come back in like 6 months when it's out of early access. You'll still have the product you paid for, but you might enjoy it more then.

Nobody expects it to work *flawlessly* in early access, but I do expect it to work when you are charging me for it. Too often it doesn't and the appearance I'm getting is they are adding these new features like traffic in before fixing the basic issues. Like vectoring us straight to the field. Like sending me to a rwy which isn't even used and is completely inappropriate for the plane. 

As it is, the default ATC in MSFS is better fleshed out and working than BATC is. And that's saying something, as the MSFS ATC is laughable at times. The only thing BATC does well at this point is voice recognition and allowing us to speak and talk more naturally to the ATC. Unfortunately how BATC chooses to respond and react is still not working all that well. 

Using the discord for reporting bugs is fine, I guess. If you go there however, it's a mess of people just posting log files with no evidence of whether or not they are actually being seen. Some sort of actual tracking like a ticket system seems like it would've been a better use. Is there any place where a list of known bugs is posted so we can understand what is and what isn't being worked on?

50 minutes ago, bahnzo said:

Nobody expects it to work *flawlessly* in early access, but I do expect it to work when you are charging me for it. Too often it doesn't and the appearance I'm getting is they are adding these new features like traffic in before fixing the basic issues. Like vectoring us straight to the field. Like sending me to a rwy which isn't even used and is completely inappropriate for the plane. 

As it is, the default ATC in MSFS is better fleshed out and working than BATC is. And that's saying something, as the MSFS ATC is laughable at times. The only thing BATC does well at this point is voice recognition and allowing us to speak and talk more naturally to the ATC. Unfortunately how BATC chooses to respond and react is still not working all that well. 

Using the discord for reporting bugs is fine, I guess. If you go there however, it's a mess of people just posting log files with no evidence of whether or not they are actually being seen. Some sort of actual tracking like a ticket system seems like it would've been a better use. Is there any place where a list of known bugs is posted so we can understand what is and what isn't being worked on?

No offense, but I don't think you understand what Early Access means and it doesn't seem to be for you. As others have pointed out, they could not have made the state of the product clearer when you bought it so this one is on you.

I've done more flights than I can count since BATC was released and I'm very impressed with the progress they're making. Is everything working perfectly all the time? No - but I'm not expecting it to. And I'd rather have them focus on fixing the bugs than post daily updates on what they're working on. There's almost daily patches for bugs right now and things are moving at pace. It's very east to report an issue on their Discord and post your logs. Usually it will get acknowledged and more often than not I've had a quick reply to say that this was a known issue and was being worked on. 

I generally try to respect everybody's opinion, but the fact you've come out and said that you believe default ATC works better than BATC in it's current state just made me laugh out loud. If you can't cope with the state of the product, perhaps consider using default ATC and revisit BATC in 6 months time? For me it's the biggest leap in ATC since I started flight simulation 25 years ago and it's not even out of Alpha yet.

2 hours ago, bahnzo said:

As it is, the default ATC in MSFS is better fleshed out and working than BATC is.

That is not true at all.

2 hours ago, Speedbird 217 said:

No offense, but I don't think you understand what Early Access means and it doesn't seem to be for you. As others have pointed out, they could not have made the state of the product clearer when you bought it so this one is on you.

I've done more flights than I can count since BATC was released and I'm very impressed with the progress they're making. Is everything working perfectly all the time? No - but I'm not expecting it to. And I'd rather have them focus on fixing the bugs than post daily updates on what they're working on. There's almost daily patches for bugs right now and things are moving at pace. It's very east to report an issue on their Discord and post your logs. Usually it will get acknowledged and more often than not I've had a quick reply to say that this was a known issue and was being worked on. 

I generally try to respect everybody's opinion, but the fact you've come out and said that you believe default ATC works better than BATC in it's current state just made me laugh out loud. If you can't cope with the state of the product, perhaps consider using default ATC and revisit BATC in 6 months time? For me it's the biggest leap in ATC since I started flight simulation 25 years ago and it's not even out of Alpha yet.

No offense, but I very much understand what early access is. I've bought my share of them on Steam throughout the years. Maybe it means something different for you, but for me Early Access means that while it's still in development, it's mostly fleshed out with some features still waiting to be added with the occasional bugs still being squashed. That's not BATC at the moment. We are paying to be Alpha testers for a program that's far from ready. 

Can I have my money back while I wait for BATC to be ready?

45 minutes ago, bahnzo said:

No offense, but I very much understand what early access is. I've bought my share of them on Steam throughout the years. Maybe it means something different for you, but for me Early Access means that while it's still in development, it's mostly fleshed out with some features still waiting to be added with the occasional bugs still being squashed. That's not BATC at the moment. We are paying to be Alpha testers for a program that's far from ready. 

Can I have my money back while I wait for BATC to be ready?

you just confirm that you didn't read the conditions before buying the addon, you agree to the conditions that they appear clearly in the middle of the screen not even on a corner and you have to agree with multiple clicks for me was the first time I bought an early access product that put you a warning before the payment about the bugs and problems that can have in the early access but this proves that doesn't matter how transparent you can be there is always people...

This thread is being trashed by two posters. Mods?

Edited September 17, 20241 yr by RobJC

My experience

I bought the experimental version as well and the performance is exceptional compared to what I was using before (FSHUD) On the other hand the ATC tracking on descent is really not good at all. With FSHUD the difference is much better and significant and the tracking is on another level. I feel like I'm being abandoned with Beyond. I may not be doing the right thing, but everything is up to date, navigraph, simbrief, fenix etc...Beyond ATC rarely sends me to the right altitude and I am always above the runway if I follow the little instruction on the descent.

That latest video is rather impressive.  Of course there is some weird stuff and errors happening, but this is a massive step forward to be controlling AI traffic in this manner with separation and alot of varied language that doesnt sound scripted at all.   We really havnt seen AI traffic be controlled in such a manner before in the flight sim world.  

7 hours ago, bahnzo said:

it's mostly fleshed out with some features still waiting to be added with the occasional bugs still being squashed

Yeah.. no, nowhere does Steam's early access describe a product as "mostly fleshed out". An Early access product can be at any point in it's development cycle. You claiming to have bought several EA titles on steam and still upset about the state of BATC is kinda odd.

I don't own BATC because of it's current state but that was a personal choice. However, the BATC team have been more than receptive of it's community and pushing out updates and fixes in a timely manner. By all intents and purposes the BATC team has been properly using the EA model so I don't see the problem here.

You complaining about paying to be an alpha tester is exactly what the Early Access model entails, being a part of the development cycle and directly being able to interact with the devs to the point of 1.0 release. I don't know what ever gave you the impression that early access is synonymous with Beta, they're fundamentally different.