4 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

The issue is that I've seen a few people talking about it like the new one is going to run entirely in the cloud, because they don't understand the part about slimming the client by leaving stuff "in the cloud" that you're not using. I saw one person on this forum incorrectly compare it to Stadia, which was a service literally running an entire game in a datacenter and then streaming the video output.  That's not what MSFS2024 is doing... it's just pulling down more stuff a la carte, so you're not installing gigabytes of content you don't want.

aahh ok now I get it, thanks

I find it very interesting how the "information" of content creators, who were flown to the Grand Canyon at MS's expense, some even receiving a free flight on the Cirrus Jet, is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion, even though mostly PR material and unquestioned statements from MS and the developers are being published.
Critical voices are discredited (e.g. "toddlers making assumptions") in order to immediately emphasize how full one's own glass is.

There was recently a thread about censorship in the official forum. It's not even necessary, the "community" takes care of it itself.
Missed opportunities...

1 minute ago, Tom_L said:

I find it very interesting how the "information" of content creators, who were flown to the Grand Canyon at MS's expense, some even receiving a free flight on the Cirrus Jet, is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion, even though mostly PR material and unquestioned statements from MS and the developers are being published.
Critical voices are discredited (e.g. "toddlers making assumptions") in order to immediately emphasize how full one's own glass is.

There was recently a thread about censorship in the official forum. It's not even necessary, the "community" takes care of it itself.
Missed opportunities...

Can of worms there mate but yeah I kinda get what you're saying, the videos & reports have 99% been "wow" and "amazing" and "it's brilliant", not much in the way of critical analysis. Which I suppose is to be fair as it's a pre-release version they were playing, which needs to be taken into account of course and as ever when the time comes the public will decide whether it's good or not.

As for the community yes I totally agree, this place has been awash with "know it alls" shouting down anyone who even blinks in the direction of questioning something related to the sim, or a nats whisker of negativity. There's still a lot we don't know, yet some round here like to act that they know everything already, even though they've not played the sim themselves!

Looking at all this coverage, it seems that a lot of folks have a lot of free time on their hands. I mean, who in their right mind watches a 4 hour Twitch stream, containing a sum total of 20 minutes (if that) of useful info. 

Much of what we hear and read about MSFS 2020 is speculation, information based on snippets of the game, official and carefully curated interviews with Asobo/Microsoft, real experts, so-called experts, real pilots, armchair pilots, tea leave readers, 
Oracles of Delphi, Shamans, etc. 

It's all noise that doesn't matter. 

The only thing that matters is what happens after you've installed YOUR copy of MSFS 2024 on YOUR PC.

4 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

This.

It's a video game. 

Some folks make it sound like Moses is about to reveal the "15 commandments". 

You may play it as a game, but I use it to replicate procedures IRL.  It can be a game or simulator depending how it's used.

42 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Looking at all this coverage, it seems that a lot of folks have a lot of free time on their hands. I mean, who in their right mind watches a 4 hour Twitch stream, containing a sum total of 20 minutes (if that) of useful info.

I watched the film DOOM if only for the 1minute of footage with the Gun POV as seen in the games (the rest of the film was rubbish!)

2 hours ago, Tom_L said:

is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion,

Because there’s no reason to not to believe them.

They also have video evidence to back up their words.

3 hours ago, Tom_L said:

I find it very interesting how the "information" of content creators, who were flown to the Grand Canyon at MS's expense, some even receiving a free flight on the Cirrus Jet, is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion, even though mostly PR material and unquestioned statements from MS and the developers are being published.
Critical voices are discredited (e.g. "toddlers making assumptions") in order to immediately emphasize how full one's own glass is.

If said "critical voices" also had access to the preview build then their criticism would be far more interesting, but ya up until then it's all assumptions. Also, a good majority of these reviewers are obviously neutral, and some of these folks went in with non-positive views of MSFS 2020 (i.e. XP72, etc). Their reporting is indeed factual in that we are seeing actual video of in-sim use/play, and actual words coming out of MS, Asobo, and 3rd party devs who were interviewed (which I find interesting more so than any bullet points they might've been fed by MS/Asobo). Also, at the very least we can be sure that whatever is coming from the "horse's mouth" as it were is all there plain to see via these interviews. Of course we can choose to interpret that and form our own opinions, but those who weren't there are going to have to wait till getting the sim in their hands before their opinions will be taken more seriously (be they positive or negative).
 

Edited September 25, 20241 yr by lwt1971

4 hours ago, Tom_L said:

I find it very interesting how the "information" of content creators, who were flown to the Grand Canyon at MS's expense, some even receiving a free flight on the Cirrus Jet, is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion, even though mostly PR material and unquestioned statements from MS and the developers are being published.
Critical voices are discredited (e.g. "toddlers making assumptions") in order to immediately emphasize how full one's own glass is.

There was recently a thread about censorship in the official forum. It's not even necessary, the "community" takes care of it itself.
Missed opportunities...

Oh yeah, the conspiracy theories. I've been in the gaming journalism industry for 23 years and they never stop being hilarious to see. They're pretty much akin to angry flat earthers up in arms because the government is "obviously" covering up the "real" shape of Earth. 

The next thing you'll come up with, when the game releases to a very likely cannonade of 10s out of 10 and 9s out 10, is saying that the reviewers have been paid off (which is never the case, but some people love to believe it anyway).

First of all, the information doesn't just come from those who nowadays are called "content creators" (or influencers, or streamers, or whatever you want to call 'em. I'm old and I'm still stuck with the idea that the developers are the "content creators" but I digress). 

The event included also plenty of professional journalists who are well used to play by specific rules of conduct and to avoid being swayed by the circus. Not that the streamers are by default any worse or any less credible, because that's not the case, but I thought I'd set straight the first blatant inaccuracy in your post, for the record. 

People who have any relatively extensive experience in this industry consider this kind of trip a *work tool* because that's what it is. We're going there to *work,* not to frolic. 

Of course, the PR people of the company involved will do their best to impress. It's their job and it's part of the game. Just like it's the job (and part of the game) of the attendees to be professionals and *not* be swayed. 

The vision jet, the helicopter ride (personally I declined the chance to the jet ride because I wanted to see the canyon up close from the helicopter to assess the quality of the TIN in the sim, and it didn't disappoint), and so forth are part of that game which is people's *job* not to be swayed by. 

Of course, these are the things the conspiracy theorists talk about. No one talks about the 10 hours of absolute hell spent in the middle seat in economy between a rather oversized lady and a dude who was obviously sick, with the cabin kept toasty because... I don't know why. The flight attendant was probably just a sadist.

Mind you, the entertainment doesn't just exist to sway. It's also part of this kind of event to help people relax. Long and often uncomfortable flights, missed connections, super-tight schedules, long waits, early wakeups, and the inevitable plethora of organizational issues and mishaps make for a rather stressful work environment, so the hosts do what they can to make people feel at least relatively at ease.

Like it or not, traveling is part of our job. At times it's paid by the developer hosting an event (in which case you're supposed to disclose it in your articles), and at times it's paid by your own employers. It doesn't make a lick of a practical difference for us. The only case in which it makes a difference is when some young people are tricked into paying part of that travel out of pocket, albeit I discourage the practice unless they work for themselves. An employee should never have to pay for work tools and traveling in this industry is a work tool. 

Incidentally, for most people doing this job, the sway of a paid trip isn't all that strong. While it's mostly nice and I'm grateful to have a job that allows me to travel, it's also routine by now. In the three weeks before the event I flew to Germany for Gamescom and to London for another event, and now I'm in Japan for Tokyo Game Show. At my age and at this point of my life, I'd actually be happy to skip at least some of these flights. 

So, ultimately, what Microsoft's PR people did to impress the attendees matters nothing. The whole event is and remains a work tool, and no one who has a shred of professionalism saw it in any other way. 

If you don't trust the attendees to be professionals, that is your choice, but make no mistake, it's more an issue on your side than on theirs. 

Between the two possibilities, 100 or so people all being swayed by the entertainment and forgetting their professionalism in the other closet,  and these 100 people talking positively about the sim simply because it's genuinely impressive, the simpler option (the latter) is usually true. 

"critical voices" are ridiculed as "toddlers making assumptions" because that's how a lot of them are behaving. They have not touched the sim so they're making assumptions, and they're trying so very desperately to spread unwarranted and often ludicrous negativity that it's getting honestly quite tiresome. It isn't surprising to see them patting each other in the back in this thread like they said something even remotely intelligently (spoiler: they did not).

That being said, one thing is for sure. It's hilarious to me to see this kind of conspiracy theory drooled on a thread about an article by Sergio Costa, who not only is closer to a journalist than to a "content creator" (most of his job is writing), but he's one of the most experienced, likable, respected. and bluntly honest people I've met (albeit only virtually for now) in the simulation subsegment of gaming journalism. 

For that, shame on you. 

Edited September 25, 20241 yr by Abriael

6 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

been into it since FS2 for a Commodore 64

Yeah! I remember getting it in the mail for the Commodore. Loaded it up and was blown away! Wow!! It was fantastic!

If I looked at it now... 🤮

 

It's all relative...

4 hours ago, Tom_L said:

I find it very interesting how the "information" of content creators, who were flown to the Grand Canyon at MS's expense, some even receiving a free flight on the Cirrus Jet, is taken as factual reporting without much critical discussion, even though mostly PR material and unquestioned statements from MS and the developers are being published.
Critical voices are discredited (e.g. "toddlers making assumptions") in order to immediately emphasize how full one's own glass is.

There was recently a thread about censorship in the official forum. It's not even necessary, the "community" takes care of it itself.
Missed opportunities...

There's criticism and then there's spreading blatant misinformation.

 

It's all glitz and glamor until you fire up MSFS 2024 and are confronted with the reality of how things actually are. 

I prefer to trust my own judgment rather than rely on the "opinions" of various (mostly self-annointed) "experts".

 

1 hour ago, Abriael said:

"critical voices" are ridiculed as "toddlers making assumptions" because that's how a lot of them are behaving. They have not touched the sim so they're making assumptions, and they're trying so very desperately to spread unwarranted and often ludicrous negativity that it's getting honestly quite tiresome.

Added to that, the fact they are not getting what they want, or not getting it fast enough, may also contribute to their immature responses.

 

1 hour ago, Abriael said:

No one talks about the 10 hours of absolute hell spent in the middle seat in economy between a rather oversized lady and a dude who was obviously sick, with the cabin kept toasty

We can talk about it now if you like. You ok? 😜 You rather than me. I hate to get into one of these things...

1 hour ago, Abriael said:

conspiracy theories..... pretty much akin to angry flat earthers ....."critical voices" are ridiculed as "toddlers making assumptions" because that's how a lot of them are behaving......spread unwarranted and often ludicrous negativity..... like they said something even remotely intelligently (spoiler: they did not)..... shame on you. 

Thank you for proving my main point.

11 hours ago, DavidP said:

A lot of people need to stop taking it so seriously as if their existence depends on it.

I love Flight Simulator - been into it since FS2 for a Commodore 64, but in the end, it is an imaginary world of imaginary planes.

No doubt about it! It's a game for the PC and Xbox!