10 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

The poll implies one was planning on abandoning 2020 on day one.  For a lot of us, that couldn’t be the case as we wait for all our third party planes to move over.

A better poll would be “is your useage of 24 what you expected?” In my case it is. If I can fly the plane I want in 24 I do.  I knew getting all my planes moved over was going to be a long road requiring patience  

Which is why when people point to usage statistics with an “aha” I am reminded there are lies, word not allowed lies, and statistics. 

Agreed - the poll is fundamentally flawed by its limitations.

6 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

The poll implies one was planning on abandoning 2020 on day one.  For a lot of us, that couldn’t be the case as we wait for all our third party planes to move over.

A better poll would be “is your useage of 24 what you expected?” In my case it is. If I can fly the plane I want in 24 I do.  I knew getting all my planes moved over was going to be a long road requiring patience  

Which is why when people point to usage statistics with an “aha” I am reminded there are lies, word not allowed lies, and statistics. 

This reminds me of how your treated on a job, 'What could you have done better?'...😏  You're never going to cover all the bases some would want.  The bottom line is the point has been made 2024 is not running away with the community.  If there's a better option in any way people will stick with that.  A new product has to out do what was there to be considered a resounding success.  Two places of reference now spell this out, our small sampling here and Steam in which I posted above.

5 minutes ago, Dillon said:

You're never going to cover all the bases some would want.  The bottom line is the point has been made 2024 is not running away with the community. 

This is true, however your poll implies any usage of 2020 means 2024 has failed. I can’t fly my PMDG planes or the iFLY in 24.  I didn’t expect I could realistically move over 100% until summer.

I’m not arguing against its current state. 2024 is not in a good place. But a 3rd choice of “if I can fly what I want in 24 I do so” would yield a better result.  In this case, if the “I went back to 2020” result wins, it’s telling. 

7 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

This is true, however your poll implies any usage of 2020 means 2024 has failed. I can’t fly my PMDG planes or the iFLY in 24.  I didn’t expect I could realistically move over 100% until summer.

Then what does Steam data prove?😶  We all have our reasons but go look historically what 2020 did in its first 30 days and compare (no compatible addons, no VR, etc).  That's all I was trying to discover.

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by Dillon

8 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Then what does Steam data prove?😶  We all have our reasons but go look historically what 2020 did in its first 30 days and compare (no compatible addons, no VR, etc).  That's all I was trying to discover.

I just think that we would have got a more accurate representation of the current state of play if more than those two static options were provided as I don't believe everyone who has gone back to 2020 has done so for good. 

I think many will still be using 2020 as their main sim, until such times as their most important addons/aircraft etc are ported over or made available in the new sim - and that will be individual to each user based on the importance they place on different elements of the sim.

I also don't think it's a fair representation to compare it to the 2020 release, given how long it had been since Microsoft released its predeccessor.  That was far more than a 4 year gap - so it stands to reason that, this time, more people would stay with the current 2020, to allow 2024 to further develop, before moving over - because the 'current' offering is still in a great shape and doesn't seem nearly as outdated as FSX did at the time 2020 was released.

 

9 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Then what does Steam data prove?

The steam data fuels the fires for "2024 is an abject failure".  Yes, it is true that more people are using 24 than 20. But we have zero insight into those numbers, and also zero insight into Microsoft's expectations. We instead use a broad data set and apply our own interpretations to it.

The question I have is, "what are folks doing in 2024 vs 24?" Is 24 getting more usage for career mode, while the airline simmers are using 2020?

Again, not arguing a lot of folks have soured on 24 and gone back to 2020. I know quite a few who have.

 

 

On 12/20/2024 at 8:38 AM, petejohno1 said:

I don't really see the point of these posts. The pro's and con's of both simulators have been discussed over and over again here.  Everyone can make their own decisions on which one they use.

I really don't think forums are for you then....

7 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Then what does Steam data prove?😶  We all have our reasons but go look historically what 2020 did in its first 30 days and compare (no compatible addons, no VR, etc).  That's all I was trying to discover.

Steam data is what it is, but what does it prove?  Nothing.

for it to prove anything, there would have to be an environment free of other variables.  2020 released during a worldwide pandemic, and there wasn’t a comparable and compatible sim to fall back on.  Sure, HERE there was P3D, and XP, but those were not similar market products.  Apples and oranges.  Also 2020 when released it was new and revolutionary, 2024 is an iteration of 2020.  Widespread adoption eventually of 2024 by the bulk of users is a question of when rather than if.  Or the masses of casuals will go away, but that will kill 2020 as well as 2024.

11 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Steam data is what it is, but what does it prove?  Nothing.

for it to prove anything, there would have to be an environment free of other variables.  2020 released during a worldwide pandemic, and there wasn’t a comparable and compatible sim to fall back on.  Sure, HERE there was P3D, and XP, but those were not similar market products.  Apples and oranges.  Also 2020 when released it was new and revolutionary, 2024 is an iteration of 2020.  Widespread adoption eventually of 2024 by the bulk of users is a question of when rather than if.  Or the masses of casuals will go away, but that will kill 2020 as well as 2024.

You're making all the same points I made above in a few other posts...🫤

I will say, one data point we have is INI deciding to also release the a350 for 2020. They have their own data on usage and people buying the 24-only and upgraded add ons for 2024. 

Those numbers, as well as their ongoing issues with 24, drove that decision.

25 minutes ago, Dillon said:

You're making all the same points I made above in a few other posts...🫤

Possibly, I hadn’t read all your posts, lol. Was just reacting to the what does steam data prove line.

I continue with xp12 and 2020 for A2A and Leonardo.

I am using both. I purchased the PMDG 777F which at this time is 2020-exclusive, and have been flying FedEx flights to and from MEM, but I am also doing a lot of flights in 2024 using default aircraft (IniBuilds Airbuses and the Citation Longitude). 

No can vote as I bought 2024 before launch and planned to hold off on installation until the thick clouds of dust settle out much more fully I mean why the heck bother when we have a super functional 2020 to use until that day which will absolutely come.  Post launch I figured 1-3 months to get a point it might be worth the time and effort to install.  I may even wait longer we'll see.  Since we're now one month and 2 days out from launch progress looks great from the outside.    

5 hours ago, Sethos said:

or because a lot of people are not experiencing these issue or to a severity level that some report. While I absolutely will not deny 2024 needs some TLC, a lot of communities are also suffering from an echo chamber effect, this confirmation bias of how everything is interpreted.

I've seen threads with problems on the user's end suddenly gets mentioned as problems with 2024, people latch on to everything negative they read, true or untrue, to feed their confirmation bias of how broken 2024 supposedly is. You have people who have not even bought or use 2024 around here, they just "read something on Discord or <another place>" or sense the general vibe and now join in on commenting daily how bad 2024 is. They are desperate to tell us how much they are sticking to 2020. We even have users on this very forum who's entire history for the past few weeks have been making drive-by comments about 2024. 

That also means positive feedback is quickly to be dismissed and disregarded, because it doesn't fit in with the general narrative currently. People will even go further and use the disgusting smear tactic of fundamentally dismissing a person's opinion insinuating they are paid off. It's so desperate around here to hold on to the negative vibe for as long as possible. 

Personally I have never in my decades of playing games and using simulators seen such a massive disconnect between what I'm experiencing, my friends are experiencing and what the online community has to say. Apparently 2024 is the most busted product on the planet, completely unflyable mess yet everyone in my personal circle, including myself, have hundreds of hours in it and it runs smooth, works fine, looks great and is absolutely an improvement in every way of 2020. Which is surprising given how broken it supposedly is (well, career mode certainly has its challenges). 

Nice and accurate summary.