I think its widely accepted that the flight sim community has a fair proportion of users who not only accept the process of complicated setups and endless tweaking or sorting out of bugs but actually enjoy this facet of the Hobby, I imagine there would be even more going for refunds if this was not the case.

Personally I havnt bought the new sim as the prior publicity indicated the direction it was going in was not of much interest to me.

I really want MSFS 2024 to succeed. It has a lot potential. 

Only the messy release, server issues, the issues with the controls, too large trees, boats blocking the river Seine in Paris, taxiway signs + lost trees on the taxiways, overexposed clouds with certain camera views, performance sometimes dropping a lot (vram) etc

I think we can totally agree that the sim was rushed out too early, but deadlines had to be made and the release day was fixed.

Instead of making nice flights many people were/are struggling to keep it going at all.

Looking at the release notes from the Latest update : it is as long as wallpaper from the ceiling to the floor.

I am sure that there will be multiple updates like this before this sim starts to mature.

But those long release notes show us 2 things :

1 the sim was for from ready to be released 

2 MS/Asobo are willing to make it a good flightsim that be better than MSFS 2024 

 

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by GSalden

Using 2024 and really enjoying the weather and visuals. However VR performance not good, so back to 2D for flights with Fenix, which has its advantages (crisper ground scenery for example). Using PSXT and Say Intentions which work fine. VR really enjoyable with the Joby. Addons Linker and SPAD.neXt helped make the switch relatively simple. I still have 2020, don't see the point of uninstalling, it's not costing me anything, and may occasionally go back to it if there are compatibility issues with other planes. 

11 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

You won't and can't win mate. It was the same when ms2020 came out and it's the same with xp12.  

For the 2024 die hard fans, just let them pay to beta test it for you,  they won't listen.

Funny how a certain poster who forced his opinion on everyone post the Tech Alpha Grand Canyon Event has gone completely AWOL since release, was he "removed" perhaps? Rhetorical question of course as it's nice to see threads flow without the constant threat of closure due to his posts 🙃

Either way I yet again for another game in another decade cannot understand why people get so defensive over a product that is so blatantly bugged & flawed, I question whether they're on the pay roll 🤔 

3 hours ago, Rusty Spanner said:

I think its widely accepted that the flight sim community has a fair proportion of users who not only accept the process of complicated setups and endless tweaking or sorting out of bugs but actually enjoy this facet of the Hobby, I imagine there would be even more going for refunds if this was not the case.

Personally I havnt bought the new sim as the prior publicity indicated the direction it was going in was not of much interest to me.

or because a lot of people are not experiencing these issue or to a severity level that some report. While I absolutely will not deny 2024 needs some TLC, a lot of communities are also suffering from an echo chamber effect, this confirmation bias of how everything is interpreted.

I've seen threads with problems on the user's end suddenly gets mentioned as problems with 2024, people latch on to everything negative they read, true or untrue, to feed their confirmation bias of how broken 2024 supposedly is. You have people who have not even bought or use 2024 around here, they just "read something on Discord or <another place>" or sense the general vibe and now join in on commenting daily how bad 2024 is. They are desperate to tell us how much they are sticking to 2020. We even have users on this very forum who's entire history for the past few weeks have been making drive-by comments about 2024. 

That also means positive feedback is quickly to be dismissed and disregarded, because it doesn't fit in with the general narrative currently. People will even go further and use the disgusting smear tactic of fundamentally dismissing a person's opinion insinuating they are paid off. It's so desperate around here to hold on to the negative vibe for as long as possible. 

Personally I have never in my decades of playing games and using simulators seen such a massive disconnect between what I'm experiencing, my friends are experiencing and what the online community has to say. Apparently 2024 is the most busted product on the planet, completely unflyable mess yet everyone in my personal circle, including myself, have hundreds of hours in it and it runs smooth, works fine, looks great and is absolutely an improvement in every way of 2020. Which is surprising given how broken it supposedly is (well, career mode certainly has its challenges). 

18 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Funny how a certain poster who forced his opinion on everyone post the Tech Alpha Grand Canyon Event has gone completely AWOL since release, was he "removed" perhaps? Rhetorical question of course as it's nice to see threads flow without the constant threat of closure due to his posts 🙃

I was just thinking the other day where Abriael had disappeared to. When I checked, his last post on AVSIM was on MSFS 2024 release day.....

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by Christopher Low

7 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Personally I have never in my decades of playing games and using simulators seen such a massive disconnect between what I'm experiencing, my friends are experiencing and what the online community has to say. Apparently 2024 is the most busted product on the planet, completely unflyable mess yet everyone in my personal circle, including myself, have hundreds of hours in it and it runs smooth, works fine, looks great and is absolutely an improvement in every way of 2020. Which is surprising given how broken it supposedly is (well, career mode certainly has its challenges). 

Yup and they're eating the dogs. I'm afraid that is how people think and speak in this era of 'alternative facts'. If you say something enough and say it in the right places to the right ears, nonsense becomes fact. 

14 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

limited to 60fps with RivaTuner. 

This is the difference between us, and it illustrates why you can't assume there's a problem with someone else's system if they're experiencing stutters when you aren't.

I don't like a 60fps limit, because it annoys me when I'm panning. MSFS 2020 does dip, but when it does, it's not in the form of a stutter. MSFS 2024 stutters all the time, even when settings are lowered to "High End". If limiting myself to 60fps is the only way to avoid stutters, it's not the sim for me. Yet. I'll try it again in 6 months or so.

Pre-emptive caveat: All of my statements about performance relate to my own experience on my own system.

1 hour ago, Sethos said:

 People will even go further and use the disgusting smear tactic of fundamentally dismissing a person's opinion

 

Yep and you're having a pretty good try at doing just that.

Personally I'm happy to read both sides and make my mind up without putting down the views of others as being part of some narrative.

Blue skies

11 hours ago, Dillon said:

Looks like Steam statistics is baring out the preference for 2020 like the small poll we have:

FS2020:

Microsoft Flight Simulator - Steam Charts

FS2024:

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 - Steam Charts

Would love to see what's on Microsoft's side. 2024 needs a good few beta's released to us then we can get about the business of fixing it.  Like what we did with 2020.🤞

You haven't really given enough options to cover the masses.  Not everyone is one or the other exclusively!

1 hour ago, CBass said:

You haven't really given enough options to cover the masses.  Not everyone is one or the other exclusively!

For the purposes of 2024 adoption rate usage this poll can't be more clearer.  First, Did you go back to 2020 (doesn't matter how much) after 2024 was released?  The second option is did you abandon 2020 altogether after installing 2024?  That's it...😐  A successful FS release for those that remember was releases like FS98, FS2002, FS9, and somewhat unfairly FS2020 (which totally revolutionized flight simming from what was there before).  When we all in mass abandon our existing sim for the new offering because it's so much better that's when the developer has a winner.  I just knew I wasn't the only one who stayed especially after seeing no real beta effort/testing back and forth with the community before official release.  My rule of thumb, No open betas with the community, no install...   You know it's going to be a dumpster fire.  Actually, until they start doing this with 2024 I'll continue to hold off.  You can't have quality QA without testing with your target audience.  Your just throwing fixes out there hoping it works is a failed endeavor out the gate.

Historically FS releases was always hit and mis.  You had a great version then a dude version released after that.  Hopefully with time 2024 doesn't go that same route.  It's simple, start testing with the community like what was done with 2020 and things will start getting better fast.🤔

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by Dillon

5 minutes ago, Dillon said:

First, Did you go back to 2020 (doesn't matter how much) after 2024 was released? 

The poll implies one was planning on abandoning 2020 on day one.  For a lot of us, that couldn’t be the case as we wait for all our third party planes to move over.

A better poll would be “is your useage of 24 what you expected?” In my case it is. If I can fly the plane I want in 24 I do.  I knew getting all my planes moved over was going to be a long road requiring patience  

Which is why when people point to usage statistics with an “aha” I am reminded there are lies, word not allowed lies, and statistics. 

2 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

Yup and they're eating the dogs. I'm afraid that is how people think and speak in this era of 'alternative facts'. If you say something enough and say it in the right places to the right ears, nonsense becomes fact. 

Let's deal with tangibles like I mentioned above.  When there's not an open beta especially for a new product like this your bound to have a bad release.  I saw from a mile away when we didn't have a few open beta's with the community before official release it was going to be a problem.  It was too ambitious (a thin client sim).  Asobo learned this lesson with 2020.  Until they opened the testing process 2020 didn't really shine.  The same needs to happen with 2024.  So many like myself are operating from proven common sense not just believing the narrative.🤔

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by Dillon

36 minutes ago, booga said:

This is the difference between us, and it illustrates why you can't assume there's a problem with someone else's system if they're experiencing stutters when you aren't.

I don't like a 60fps limit, because it annoys me when I'm panning. MSFS 2020 does dip, but when it does, it's not in the form of a stutter. MSFS 2024 stutters all the time, even when settings are lowered to "High End". If limiting myself to 60fps is the only way to avoid stutters, it's not the sim for me. Yet. I'll try it again in 6 months or so.

Pre-emptive caveat: All of my statements about performance relate to my own experience on my own system.

I don't need to limit to 60fps, that is a choice to maximise headroom.  I can maintain 100fps but I will then have occasional stutters as frame times will vary.  Have you tried RivaTuner to set a fps limit?

18 minutes ago, Dillon said:

For the purposes of 2024 adoption rate usage this poll can't be more clearer.  First, Did you go back to 2020 (doesn't matter how much) after 2024 was released?  The second option is did you abandon 2020 altogether after installing 2024?  That's it...😐  A successful FS release for those that remember was releases like FS98, FS2002, FS9, and somewhat unfairly FS2020 (which totally revolutionized flight simming from what was there before).  When we all in mass abandon our existing sim for the new offering because it's so much better that's when the developer has a winner.  I just knew I wasn't the only one who stayed especially after seeing no real beta effort/testing back and forth with the community before official release.  My rule of thumb, No open betas with the community, no install...   You know it's going to be a dumpster fire.  Actually, until they start doing this with 2024 I'll continue to hold off.  You can't have quality QA without testing with your target audience.  Your just throwing fixes out there hoping it works is a failed endeavor out the gate.

Historically FS releases was always hit and mis.  You had a great version then a dude version released after that.  Hopefully with time 2024 doesn't go that same route.  It's simple, start testing with the community like what was done with 2020.🤔

No!  The poll implies that you have either tried 2024 and gone back to 2020 - or you have stuck with 2024!  Why does there have to be just 2 options?  There absolutely isn't!

There are a lot of people that will be dipping in and out of both and will be waiting on 2024 'developing' before moving over full time - but your poll doesn't give that option and suggests you must have done one or the other - which will not be the case for many users!