This one's juicy.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/351440-12apr25-your-weekend-update-on-nearly-all-things-pmdg/page2#post351566

No doubt there will be some controversy here about their decisions regarding further development on 2020 vs 2024.

Have a good weekend.

[12APR25] Your Weekend Update on (nearly) All Things PMDG!

Yesterday, 18:23

 

Captains,

Happy Saturday, everybody! And I do mean happy- as we finally have a project release envelope for the PMDG 777-200ER for both MSFS20 and MSFS24!

I have a bunch of other bits of news as well- so lets get into it!


PMDG Operations Center 3 - Rollout Continues:
As mentioned in this post here, we have begun to roll out the PMDG OC3 platform, which will become the de-facto home for your PMDG fleet. I encourage you to read the post I made earlier this week, which describes OC3 and the plan forward for this product management app. As of this writing, we have expanded the products available via OC3 to include both PMDG 777F and PMDG 777-300ER, both for MSFS2020.

You can anticipate seeing the PMDG DC-6 and all four PMDG 737NGs for MSFS2020 appear in OC3 in the coming days and weeks. As products are made live in OC3, they will be removed from OC2.

We have recorded a couple of issues with OC3 during rollout and those are getting addressed in real time- so please do let us know if you see it misbehave and do please install any updates we ship for it, as they will contain important functionality fixes. (The app will tell you when it needs to update.)






PMDG_777-200ER_PW.jpg


PMDG 777-200ER for MSFS:
We have set a provisional release date on the calendar for our highly anticipated 777-200ER!

We anticipate releasing 777-200ER simultaneously for both MSFS2020 and MSFS2024 between 16APR-29APR.

PMDG 777-200ER is a big package, which includes the PW4092, GE90-92 and Rolls Royce Trent 892 engine types, fully simulated, each with it's own engine model, performance characteristics and customized sounds. The flight and performance models of each airframe are accurate to within tenths of a percent of the flight performance data compiled by the aircraft manufacturer, and given how differently the wing/engine package on the 200ER performs than newer wing/engine combination on the 300ER, 777F and 200LR, this package gives you a vastly different flying experience, especially as you stretch out to heavy-weight takeoffs and long range flying.

This package is the first to include our new generation of sound packages, redesigned from the ground up to bring you an even more feature rich sound environment, including new sounds from the flight deck of the 200ER airplane from new, high quality recordings and synthesis. We have also added in new layers of sound that we didn't have access to previous, in order to give you an even more feature-rich environment from which to experience the joy of flying the 777-200ER.

The state of play with the simulation has improved, with new features added to the tablet, such as a fully customized weight and balance application that integrates neatly with simBrief, and improved integration with simBrief for data uplink for flight plans, performance data, winds and the rest. Many other areas of the 777 have received attention, with enhanced velocity predictive methods added to the auto-throttle in order to improve speed handling and reduce throttle hunting in gusty conditions. The roll and pitch handling qualities have been improved, along with advanced mathematical modeling to improve pilot "feel" across a range of hardware input devices.

Aircraft systems have been through numerous rounds of improvements to eliminate various issues throughout the airplane and generally improve the simulation state throughout.

A single purchase (price TBA) will give users both the /20 and /24 versions of the airplane and installation will be handled via the new PMDG Operations Center 3, to include more than 30 free liveries at release.

We have a few more corners to tuck in and details to resolve, but we will refine expectations on the release date as we increase our certainty in the coming days.

Product Updates and 2020 Releases: What to Expect
Most of our customers are eagerly awaiting the arrival of our products in MSFS 2024- and this has been the main focus of our efforts since January when we received the first WASM enabled SU1 beta.

Since 200ER was in development, we have used 200ER as the development test-bed for moving our products from 2020 to 2024, and it has been quite a learning experience. These are effectively entirely different products, with unique structures, unique build requirements, unique model structures, texture implementation, sound methodologies... While we could certainly have dragged the 2020 product into 2024 and "made it run" we felt it was far better to leverage the new capabilities of the new simulator in order to wrangle peak performance out of the product, even if that took a few thousand man-hours of development time and learning to accomplish.

We think the results are worth it- and early results from some of the folks we have shared this product with tells us that performance of the 777 in MSFS 2024 is even better than it was in MSFS 2020.

The rollout sequence for the PMDG 2024 product line will look a bit like this:
- PMDG 777-200ER (16APR-29APR)
- PMDG 777F (~Mid-to-late May)
- PMDG 777-300ER (~Mid-to-late-May)
- PMDG DC-6 (~Early May)
- PMDG 777-200LR (~Late May-to-Early June?) <-- forgot this one in original post. oops!
- PMDG 737NGs (TBA)

The 777F and 777-300ER will take us a few weeks to finish building out and testing because we need to roll in all of the changes and improvements (new sounds, improved logic, handling qualities, w/b tablet features, etc) as well as refactoring how the models are built and structured etc. It takes quite a bit of time, but now that we have a process for it (designed from the 200ER work) we anticipate getting both of these products fully integrated into MSFS 2024 by end of May. All 2020 777 owners will get the 777s in 2024 free of charge, which is a nice little bonus.

DC-6 is already underway and is awaiting testing, which will commence once we have an all-clear for the 200ER to go into release phase.

The 737s have not yet begun conversion into 2024, but that will start once the 777s are out the door to you.

Streamlining The Future:
One of the things we have learned during 777-200ER development: Developing an airplane simulation on two VERY different platform technologies is highly inefficient. The Law of Squares seems to apply, in that anything we can do on 2020 takes 4x longer if you are trying to do it on 2020 and 2024 at the same time, unless we are willing to cut corners on product quality or completeness. With this in mind, we are actively looking at customer adoption rates, the pace of our development cycles, our development goals, our compelling need for quality and feature rich simulation value, and the future.

Our experience developing the 777-200ER into both MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 simultaneously has been informative and showed that if we are to continue to grow our product lines and bring in new ideas, we must also keep our development agenda looking forward.

To that end, once the 777 product line has been completed, we will not release any new titles for MSFS 2020.

Starting with the 737 conversion to MSFS 2024, we are going to begin narrowing our focus in order to improve efficiency, maintain product quality and leave more time for innovating fun, new features and product details. The PMDG 737NG for MSFS will be a near-full rebuild of the airplane with many new features, updated models, new sounds, and leveraged infrastructure that maximizes the efficiency of the product when running in MSFS 2024. We will be building this product for 2024-only in order to ensure the forward viability of the product line, but we will not be back-porting the improvements and enhancements into MSFS 2020 as we need to focus on ensuring this community favorite continues to be viable, fresh and up-to-date well into the simming future. The updated MSFS 2024 version of the 737 will require a purchase, but it will be only nominal to existing PMDG 737 customers - akin to a small upgrade charge.

The 747 product lines will be released on MSFS 2024 only

Further to that line of effort, we will be moving all of our legacy Prepar3D products to End-of-Lifecycle effective 30JUNE25. Beyond this date, we will no longer provide support for these products, although customers will still maintain access to them via their PMDG eCommerce accounts if they wish to install them. We have not released any new titles in Prepar3D for five years and obviously no more are forthcoming. This change should result in very little impact to customers, except that we will deprecate use of PMDG Operations Center 2 and that will reduce the tools effectiveness to only installing 3rd party liveries.

I recognize that these changes will disappoint some users, but we have managed through these transitions previously and there is a natural flow of users to the newer platform. If there was only a small effort required to maintain work on both platforms we would continue to do so- but if we are to avoid getting mired in maintaining just the same products in a stagnant state, we must move with the majority of customers and recognize that progress is ever forward, even for a company like ours that prides itself in the long-term support of our products.

Here is One for the Roller Fans in the Group:
PMDG_777-200ER_RR.jpg

Alright, I'm back to work on some cleanup details for the 200ER. Which is just a way of excusing the fact that I keep making takeoff after takeoff just to listen to the engine sounds. They are magnificent.

Robert S. Randazzo 
PMDG Simulations
http://www.pmdg.com

Really glad they listened to the community and focused more on the sounds

Nice to know we'll have the -300 in 24 sometime in May (tentatively). Unfortunately that means  I won't be using it for CTP Westbound. Will definitely make up for that when it is out though. 

Well, I think it's safe to say that the 737 line will be a full purchase price with all the 'improvements' they say they are going to make. 

Quote

While we could certainly have dragged the 2020 product into 2024 and "made it run" we felt it was far better to leverage the new capabilities of the new simulator in order to wrangle peak performance out of the product, even if that took a few thousand man-hours of development time and learning to accomplish.

How many devs work at PMDG to warrant the 'few thousand man-hours' claim? That seems a bit overly embellished. 

12 minutes ago, Lotharen said:

Well, I think it's safe to say that the 737 line will be a full purchase price with all the 'improvements' they say they are going to make. 

How many devs work at PMDG to warrant the 'few thousand man-hours' claim? That seems a bit overly embellished. 

Nope...

Quote

The updated MSFS 2024 version of the 737 will require a purchase, but it will be only nominal to existing PMDG 737 customers - akin to a small upgrade charge.
 

As for development hours they can surpass a few thousand in a few months easily.  Say 10 people doing full time work.  That's 1,600 hours per month.  5 devs would be 800 hours per month ~3 months since they got the SDK would be between 2,400-4,800 hours.  Dev hours add up fast.  Why would they embellish to give the -300, -F and DC6 away for free? 

Edited April 13, 20251 yr by psolk

Great. Looking forward to it. Tried the 777 in 2024 just now and had some issues (not on any beta). Glad we get some news. A small...upgrade fee is ok but I also keep in mind their long-standing run of products (737 series) were left with bugs for a few years after release. So, it will really depend on their "fee" IMO before I decide anything at all. Part of it was MS/Asobo dropping buggy sim updates so I think I will just cut PMDG some slack in that very instance.

 

18 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

Great. Looking forward to it. Tried the 777 in 2024 just now and had some issues (not on any beta). Glad we get some news. A small...upgrade fee is ok but I also keep in mind their long-standing run of products (737 series) were left with bugs for a few years after release. So, it will really depend on their "fee" IMO before I decide anything at all. Part of it was MS/Asobo dropping buggy sim updates so I think I will just cut PMDG some slack in that very instance.

 

I have no issue paying a fee if PMDG ask for one to have a 2020 to 2024 product. They 're in business to make money and owe us (the customer) no obligation to give away free development because they're nice. Asobo promised 98% of all 2020 addons will work in 2024. As we know that was not the case. Glad to hear that they are moving off the legacy products to put all their energies into the latest platform. Doesn't make sense to try to develop for 2 platforms. Also, I have not and will not purchase any more 2020 products unless the 2024 version is eminent upgrade in future.

45 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

I have no issue paying a fee if PMDG ask for one to have a 2020 to 2024 product. They 're in business to make money and owe us (the customer) no obligation to give away free development because they're nice. Asobo promised 98% of all 2020 addons will work in 2024. As we know that was not the case. Glad to hear that they are moving off the legacy products to put all their energies into the latest platform. Doesn't make sense to try to develop for 2 platforms. Also, I have not and will not purchase any more 2020 products unless the 2024 version is eminent upgrade in future.

Yes, hence my statement of cutting them slack due to MS/Asobo creating so many issues for them. Wonder how much the upgrade fee will be? 5? 10? 15 USD?

3 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

Yes, hence my statement of cutting them slack due to MS/Asobo creating so many issues for them. Wonder how much the upgrade fee will be? 5? 10? 15 USD?

It's a little shy now, but my CC is waiting.

 I understand their forward plans. They are a business after all and need to balance their considerations. I'm 98% on 2024 now anyway. The same thing happened in the days of FS9/FSX. 

Original post:

"All 2020 777 owners will get the 777s in 2024 free of charge, which is a nice little bonus." -Robert S. Randazzo

Appreciate the update.

2 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Wonder how much the upgrade fee will be? 5? 10? 15 USD?

I think it'll be more than 5/10/15 USD for the 737.   But they have surprised me before.

The whole 737 product line is almost exactly three years old at this point and was released before 2024 was even announced.

If you look at it that way, I don't mind paying an upgrade fee. I would rather they do it sooner than later. I feel like they are a much more popular product than yet another 777 variant, and people would be happier to have these ready first rather than wait until mid-Summer for the work to even begin.