As an interesting aside, I think everyone is different when it comes to controls – almost like a mindset thing. I'm sure there are people that prefer to have as much of a 1:1 to real controls as possible. Like the exact yoke, motion, resistance, even avionics. And there's certainly benefit to it. Albeit I suppose the downside is it will never be perfect unless you spend $$$.

Maybe it's because I'm used to other things, but I've never had issues using whatever is underhand. It's like in my mind, I'm not controlling the actual yoke but the hands that hold the virtual yoke in the plane. Does that make sense?

Same as using a gamepad in racing sims – you're controlling the hands holding the steering wheel. Makes sense to me. Anyone else does the same thing?

10 minutes ago, Georgleboui said:

As an interesting aside, I think everyone is different when it comes to controls – almost like a mindset thing. I'm sure there are people that prefer to have as much of a 1:1 to real controls as possible. Like the exact yoke, motion, resistance, even avionics. And there's certainly benefit to it. Albeit I suppose the downside is it will never be perfect unless you spend $$$.

Maybe it's because I'm used to other things, but I've never had issues using whatever is underhand. It's like in my mind, I'm not controlling the actual yoke but the hands that hold the virtual yoke in the plane. Does that make sense?

Same as using a gamepad in racing sims – you're controlling the hands holding the steering wheel. Makes sense to me. Anyone else does the same thing?

Interesting and valid observation. I used to teach in Level D flight simulators before I retired from my airline, and it was obvious that flying the sim and flying the aircraft called upon different physical skills. Sure, the procedures were the same, and the controls and buttons were literally the same hardware that was in the real aircraft, but the handling was subtly different enough that they were best seen for what they were. There were pilots who would do great in the sim, but had trouble in the real aircraft, and more commonly, pilots who were excellent in the aircraft who had problems in the sim. In other words, full-fidelity physical hardware didn't automatically translate to good results. The best pilots were the ones who could adapt to the idiosyncrasies of each. To your point, as long as I'm using a controller that lets me translate my intent to the platform, it doesn't really make a difference whether it's a yoke, or a stick, or what it looks like. Obviously, personal preference comes in to play--I'm not discounting that--but flying a 747 with a side stick or an Airbus with a yoke, these are all possibilities and it depends to some extent on the mindset you describe. CFIs have no trouble switching between right hand on throttles, left hand on yoke, to the opposite, and that's another variant of the same. It's all about how to get your inputs into the platform, and there are multiple ways that are equally doable to the user.  

 

 

I think the Honeycomb Alpha is excellent for anything except yank and bank dogfighting in a wwI or WWII sim. Speed rules in a dogfight, smoothness and accurate control means little. But seldom do you spin around quick on a dime in an airliner or GA flight. A good non pivoting yoke can do decently in any thing else, even where not the best.

If you can swing it, the brunner yoke is phenomenal; great customer service, robust build and software, easily will last for many years to come. The software, however does have a pretty steep learning curve.

I ordered the Moza, but their business practices, lack of features, and software instability led me to return it. Out of frustration, i opted for the brunner. Went through the Saitek, ChProducts (which was my first yoke and lasted for well over 25 years), and the Thrustmaster. The biggest thing with spring yokes was that the force wasn't enough, the lack of proper trimming, and the weird detent you get with springs. Over the course of the yokes I'd bought, they would total around $1000. It's no secret that the brunner is expensive, but if you plan on simming for years to come, i can't recommend it enough. The way I justify it is, with every new sim comes new purchases...scenery, planes, etc. Can't tell you how many times through the years I've bought the same airports or planes. With the yoke, it'll work in every sim and doesn't need to be re-bought. So when you're choosing, do some research....don't just get something that will "get the job done;" it should feel good, reliable, and be a joy to use, since after all, this is for fun!

4 hours ago, eslader said:

Like @Ray Proudfoot I also have a Fulcrum yoke and it is amazingly good. Unfortunately, you can't get one right now due to supply issues affecting the guy who makes them. We're all hopeful he will recover from these problems because, man, if anyone deserves to he does.

Chris is making good progress on honouring orders not previously delivered. The business is recovering with new investment. 👍

I use a VKB Gladiator joystick and STECS throttle for everything, IL-2, GA, airliners. Both are solid, precise (0 dead zone required), and great value for money.

I have limited space and I like a setup with the throttle and joystick either side of the keyboard. A yoke is awkward and gets in the way.

I’d echo @V1ROTA7E’s comments about the Brunner the force feedback it gives finally makes large jet flying in the sim feel realistic.

They are indeed expensive but if you’re in the market for investing in top class serious realism then it’s the one I’d recommend too. Both @V1ROTA7E and I , both being real world jet pilots don’t need to worry about the cost as we are extremely well paid, have a collection of sports cars and a string of glamorous girlfriends in various cities. (And if you believe that, you may be interested in the latest release from captain sim )

I think what ever suits you ergonomically, practically, and financially will work fine. It’s not that with basic controls you start thinking this isn’t feeling realistic, it’s just with more specialised controls you do do start thinking this is realistic, if that makes sense.

I sometimes enjoy flying an airliner with a joystick as you do get much finer control I think, the only thing missing is the point after V1 where you take your hand off the throttle and have both hands on the yoke to pull back for rotation.

For a non force feedback yoke I’d also recommend the Fulcrum that Ray mentions. For lighter aircraft like a PA28 there isn’t really much force coming back though the stick anyway and the spring force and general feel of the fulcrum make it ideal for light aircraft. I also used the fulcrum for jets before getting the Brunner and much preferred it to the thrustmaster 787 yoke.

It may sound like a small thing but feeling the Fulcrum’s metal yoke in your hand compared to a plastic one makes a massive difference to realism.

In short, what ever you use it’s unlikely to feel “unrealistic “ it’s just with more specialised options they feel MORE realistic.

12 hours ago, eslader said:

It's important to know there are two Honeycomb yokes, the Alpha and the Alpha XPC. The Alpha does not have hall effect sensors. It uses old-style pots, and all pots eventually become noisy over time which translates into weird control inputs. Hall effect sensors do not suffer from that kind of degradation.

The XPC has hall effect sensors, but it's also $370 and at that price point...

You just saved me a lot of money.

Have not bought anything yet. You guys have given me a lot to think about

10 hours ago, V1ROTA7E said:

I ordered the Moza, but their business practices, lack of features, and software instability led me to return it. Out of frustration, i opted for the brunner.

Interesting, I was thinking that could be a good cost effective alternative to the Brunner. Did you compare it against the Brunner mark II, or just the NG? 

I use the honeycomb alpha and bravo and both are very good and versatile. The main thing I would say is they are both rather bulky and take a lot of space on your desk and storage when not in use. I use the Thrustmaster Airbus stick and throttle quad for bus flying so do have to remove the honeycomb now and then and find a place to keep them. First world problems.

55 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Interesting, I was thinking that could be a good cost effective alternative to the Brunner. Did you compare it against the Brunner mark II, or just the NG? 

Yeah, it was a bit of a bummer because it has the potential to beat the brunner with features like having switches in the front pane, modular handles, strong force feedback, and more “consumer” grade pricing. Hop on their discord and follow the discussion. Haven’t been on in a while, but go back a few weeks and see what you can find. 
 

I have only used the Mk ii yoke, so can’t comment specifically. But having the extra pitch travel is very nice. 

I was also thinking about the moza, but watching  G-loc media reviews on YouTube he said the maturity of the Brunner proprietary software was a big plus in favour of the Brunner or Moza.

On 5/5/2025 at 1:07 PM, btacon said:

My recommendation would be the Turtle Beach Velocity One Yoke & Throttle (Universal Control System).  Bought mine on like day 15 of MSFS 2020 and it has served me flawlessly to this day.

Have you had any issues with the yoke sticking with small pitch movements? I've been eyeing up the Velocity One for a while now and that seems to be a common complaint in reviews. Wondering if it's something that lubricant or some other DIY trick could remedy if it's an issue. Been using a CH Pro yoke for ages but the upgraded pitch and roll travel of the V1 would be nice. It also seems pretty compact, similar to the CH Pro.

A shame the throttles can't be used separately when they're detached from the yoke or it would be an instant purchase for me (would be nice to use the throttles with my joystick without having to mount the entire yoke).

3 hours ago, Funky D said:

Have you had any issues with the yoke sticking with small pitch movements? I've been eyeing up the Velocity One for a while now and that seems to be a common complaint in reviews.

I too have seen those discussions.  There is a spot at pitch neutral where the stick sometimes needs a small nudge to go back to center but once you know and understand that nuance, it’s not a real issue, at least for me.  4+years of constant use and the yoke feels as smooth and light as the day I unboxed it.  Good luck with your search.  Yoke controllers tend to be a big ticket item, hopefully purchased only once in many years.  
-B

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by btacon

On 5/5/2025 at 9:32 PM, Georgleboui said:

As an interesting aside, I think everyone is different when it comes to controls – almost like a mindset thing.

 

Agreed. And I used to approach it from that "controlling virtual hands" perspective. Especially in those years when I was flight simming on a Mac Classic using the mouse for attitude control and throttle!

I only moved to a yoke fairly recently. I used joysticks of varying quality for decades. This was one of my earlier ones:

Only I had broken the top of the stick off so there was only about 3/4 of an inch left, and it had jagged plastic on top. The enormous callous on my thumb was evidence of how much time I was spending flying pretend airplanes. 😉

I went through various sticks, HOTAS setups and the awful Saitek yoke, which got shelved to go back to a HOTAS setup. I only finally pulled the trigger on a *good* yoke a few years ago and now I'm in the market for a similar-quality stick for greater precision in DCS.

Regardless of whether you consider the controller to be just a controller or an actual piece of the pretend airplane equipment, it's the precision that you want. The reason I ditched the Saitek yoke in favor of a HOTAS wasn't because I hated yokes, but because that yoke sucked. It was sticky, so you'd end up overcontrolling when you'd finally overcome that friction and snap the yoke into a roll. Not fun at all.

 

 

On 5/6/2025 at 2:19 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

Chris is making good progress on honouring orders not previously delivered. The business is recovering with new investment. 👍

Such great news. I keep hoping he'll get the throttle sorted because I suspect my Bravo isn't going to last forever.