24 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

thinks he is asking you the actual difference in flying the -600 and -800 not the physical differences 

Yeah I’ve answered back. No relevance to what I was saying before though.

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by carlanthony24

37 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Yeah I’ve answered back. No relevance to what I was saying before though.

The relevance is that there IS NO difference.  You're flying a cockpit, and they're the same.  There are no different procedures or techniques used.

So it's odd to claim that using a -600 in the sim would only be for those who "don't care about realism".  The cockpit and aircraft operation are identical.  An NG is an NG.

3 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Hi,

I've flown PMDG, Prosim as well as the Zibo mod. I run real Boeing yokes and rudder pedals in a Boeing dual trainer. I've spent numerous hours in multi-million dollar sims and both prosim and pmdg cannot give me the same feel response that I can get from the mod. Not the fault of these third party companies they must work within the limitations of the base platform.

As for items missing from the CDU/FMC, I can find many from PMDG as well! 

Ah well, that's subjective in the sense that none of them really feel like flying an airplane.  So sure, you should use what you like best, but that definitely doesn't make it "better".  For my money, the one that feels closest to a 737 is the iFly, but again that's *closest*, certainly not the same. 

I would think *better* in this context would mean "highest fidelity simulation", and that's the perspective I was talking about.  Zibo is a great freeware project though.

4 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

The relevance is that there IS NO difference.  You're flying a cockpit, and they're the same.  There are no different procedures or techniques used.

So it's odd to claim that using a -600 in the sim would only be for those who "don't care about realism".  The cockpit and aircraft operation are identical.  An NG is an NG.

The definition of "realism" is not the same for everyone, so I am assuming that his argument refers to the fact that there are not many 737-600s flying around when compared to the 737-800. If your definition of the term "realism" includes having to use the correct type on published routes, then the -600 is not going to provide you with many options. I couldn't care less about which types fly on specific routes, but I understand why it matters to some people.

6 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

The relevance is that there IS NO difference.  You're flying a cockpit, and they're the same.  There are no different procedures or techniques used.

So it's odd to claim that using a -600 in the sim would only be for those who "don't care about realism".  The cockpit and aircraft operation are identical.  An NG is an NG.

You are correct. But realism sake like I mentioned especially in Europe. I don’t even think any 600’s are used. 

Person was trying to claim the 736 for the price it is it good. It is for anyone wishing to not use in a realistic way. Said person also trying to say about the price Fenix was compared to PMDG. Really wasn’t considering that the 738 would have been the best example to use along with the A320. 

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

The definition of "realism" is not the same for everyone, so I am assuming that his argument refers to the fact that there are not many 737-600s flying around when compared to the 737-800. If your definition of the term "realism" includes having to use the correct type on published routes, then the -600 is not going to provide you with many options. I couldn't care less about which types fly on specific routes, but I understand why it matters to some people.

The 737-600 is pretty rather rare just like the Airbus 318. But hey who is stopping you from flying it in a sim, that is not real. To each of their own so keep flying it and using the 736. It does not matter it is not in the graham scheme of things to the real world that some folks want to believe here.

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by JBDB-MD80

Yeah, I don't know.  I can't see any difference between simming with one variant of the NG compared to another.  I agree it's subjective and anyone has the right to make up their own rules about this kind of stuff, but to say that using the "wrong" variant of an airplane is "unrealistic", or saying that you can't fly an airplane somewhere because it hasn't gone there in reality... To me that's pushing it.  Where do you draw the line?  What if your preferred airline is in the middle of a livery transition and today's flight to a given airport was in a livery you don't have?  Do you sim the flight on a different day so liveries match?  Etc.  

It's completely fair to take a -600 into any airport any 737 flies into in reality.  A simmer could just pretend it was any variant they prefer - you know, the way they pretend they're *flying* vs sitting at a desk 😉 - and they'd honestly probably never know the difference.  Because of this, I'd argue the -600 represents quite a value for a PMDG-level 737.

The PMDG may not be my favorite 73 in the sim anymore but that sure doesn't mean it's not good.  It's GREAT.  As far as price... Meh, they don't owe anyone anything.  The market will set the price, and when you look at the number of PMDG birds on Vatsim etc... I'd say the market is pretty happy with the prices 😉.

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by Stearmandriver

11 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Ah well, that's subjective in the sense that none of them really feel like flying an airplane.  So sure, you should use what you like best, but that definitely doesn't make it "better".  For my money, the one that feels closest to a 737 is the iFly, but again that's *closest*, certainly not the same. 

I would think *better* in this context would mean "highest fidelity simulation", and that's the perspective I was talking about.  Zibo is a great freeware project though.

I never said it was better as far as systems/subsystems, I said that I am able to mimic the response (based on yoke/rudder/tiler input) of the multi million dollar sim using XP and Zibo, something I cannot achieve in MS2020 with both PMDG/DIM and/or Prosim using my Flight Deck Solutions 737-800 Dual Trainer. That makes the feel of the airliner while in motion much better in the other base platform.

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

7 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

You are correct. But realism sake like I mentioned especially in Europe. I don’t even think any 600’s are used. 

Person was trying to claim the 736 for the price it is it good. It is for anyone wishing to not use in a realistic way. Said person also trying to say about the price Fenix was compared to PMDG. Really wasn’t considering that the 738 would have been the best example to use along with the A320. 

We JUST had a multi-thousand hour 737 pilot tell us that there's no "realism" difference between the 736 and 738, but you still want to argue about it?

You're conflating consumer desktop flight simulation with IRL professional airline operations, and I can't figure out why you can't delineate between the two...

The comparison between the 736 and F A320 addons is apt and appropriate for flight simulation purposes.

It doesn't mean, by ANY means, that the Fenix is sub-par, nor the PMDG above par. And the comparison is certainly not to be confused with the IRL aircraft & operations, which are immaterial in this context.

No, the point here is that PMDG offer a better INCENTIVE to High Fidelity flight simmers by offering a better VALUE in the 736.

Whether the 736 is still operated anywhere doesn't detract from its realism of simulation any more than the JF Fokker.

It's really as simple as that. Get it..? 😁

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta
Autocorrect corrections

7 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

We JUST had a multi-thousand hour 737 pilot tell is that there's no "realism" difference between the 736 and 738, but you still want to argue about it?

You're conflating consumer desktop flight simulation with IRL airline operations, and I can't figure out why you can't delineate between the two...

The comparison between the 736 and F A320 addons is apt and appropriate for flight simulation purposes.

It doesn't mean, by ANY means, that the Fenix is sub-par, nor the PMDG above par. And the comparison is certainly not to be confused with the IRL aircraft & operations, which are immaterial in this context.

No, the point here is that PMDG offer a better INCENTIVE to High Fidelity flight simmers by offering a better VALUE in the 736.

Whether the 736 is still operated anywhere doesn't detract from its realism of simulation any more than the JF Fokker.

It's really as simple as that. Get it..? 😁

You don't get it do you. Might not be any realism difference between the planes but routes they operate on their is. People like myself regardless try to abide by the schedules the same plane they are using. Reg I couldn't care less or times but plane wise If its operated by a 738 I want to fly the 738 not the 736.  They offer a better value only because its not widely used if they sold it maybe $10 under the asking price of the 738 they would struggle to sell it, for people who want to mimic real world ops. why do you think the 800 is more on the PMDG store its because its more popular for commercial ops and widely used. Let me know when you understand 😁

Edited May 9, 20251 yr by carlanthony24

7 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

You don't get it do you. Might not be any realism difference between the planes but routes they operate on their is. People like myself regardless try to abide by the schedules the same plane they are using. Reg I couldn't care less or times but plane wise If its operated by a 738 I want to fly the 738 not the 736.  They offer a better value only because its not widely used if they sold it maybe $10 under the asking price of the 738 they would struggle to sell it, for people who want to mimic real world ops. why do you think the 800 is more on the PMDG store its because its more popular for commercial ops and widely used. Let me know when you understand 😁

No, I get it. But words matter.

Preferences are entirely subjective, and appropriate - because this is all about spending leisure time in an enjoyable manner. E.g., you prefer to operate your desktop game in a manner somewhat consistent with IRL operations. And I get it - it provides guidance, structure, and increases immersion.

All good if that's what you prefer.

But to call the 736 "unrealistic" vs the 738 states that there's some inherent deficiency in the addon itself. And since there simply isn't any such deficiency, we can safely conclude that your description of "unrealistic" is an overweening, incorrect assertion.

 

On 5/7/2025 at 7:26 AM, Kevin_28 said:

avg computer programmer makes about $70k usd in the uk

I hope not, I just hired entry level software engineer for $85K USD.  For Senior software engineers looking at $150 to $300K in the US pending demand on "current" skill set.  Contractors I approve upto about $190/hr (but they can go as high as $225/hr).

But again, I relate "value" based on cost vs. time used, just about ALL Add-ons for MSFS have the best value.

EDIT: on any platform, value is exceptional relative to other forms of entertainment.

Edited May 10, 20251 yr by CO2Neutral

57 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

I hope not, I just hired entry level software engineer for $85K USD.  For Senior software engineers looking at $150 to $300K in the US pending demand on "current" skill set.  Contractors I approve upto about $190/hr (but they can go as high as $225/hr).

But again, I relate "value" based on cost vs. time used, just about ALL Add-ons for MSFS have the best value.

EDIT: on any platform, value is exceptional relative to other forms of entertainment.

I think you missed the part where they said “in the UK”. There’s a massive difference in software salaries between the US and Europe.

$190 per hour?? Are you sure that they are programmers, and not lawyers?

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

$190 per hour?? Are you sure that they are programmers, and not lawyers?

This is how it is in tech. I’ve paid contractors more than $500/hr sometimes. I know of contractors that charge $1500/hr… (COBOL guys)