19 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

There's no blame Ian, it's just economic feasibility.  Doubtless some of the native assets still need reworking, that wouldn't surprise me.  Everyone should care about how the LOD system works, because if you don't understand the differences between 2020 and 2024, you are not intellectually equipped to criticise something that doesn't appear to work exactly as you'd like.

Devs have been lobbying MS/Asobo, which is how the new LOD curve came about.  This is something that will continue to evolve.  It's worth noting that the same assets in the same sim may display differently AT DIFFERENT DISPLAY RESOLUTIONs, due to the way 2024 LOD works.  You just can't sustain the point that 'the LOD system is poor', it's all related to how individual model assets work within that system, within the context of the end user setup.  

This is not a third party problem. MS/Asobo promised live ship traffic. Where is it? Some say it’s invisible due to LODs… if that’s true, how is that a third party dev issue?

Just now, Virtual-Chris said:

This is not a third party problem. MS/Asobo promised live ship traffic. Where is it? Some say it’s invisible due to LODs… if that’s true, how is that a third party dev issue?

I've seen some, matched it against the live data from MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic https://share.google/kBunNed37GnZeDItz

The model matching leaves something be desired for sure.  I believe a lot of the default ship assets were made by Gaya, and may need LOD improvements, my knowledge on that isn't 100%, just high confidence.

I'd recommend reading the 2024 SDK on LODs to understand in detail why a ship model might not be displayed as we'd like in every circumstance.

Think I am going to have to start seeing a shrink due to MSFS saying one thing and leading me on for months and months ah couple years for the sim they said I was going to have on purchase 😉  Maddening muaahhha haaa love it. Hey it's fun 😉

 

59 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I just see passing the blame around here. No one takes responsibility for what is, a very very poor LOD system/Object LOD system,

It's not the system itself.   The system's performance and looks are wonderful when an asset is set up for the LOD's.   After all, that was the whole point of setting it up (performance & appearance).  It's the developers, not just Gaya / 1st/ 3rd parties but also as you said, yes Asobo themselves who need to implement it on all models.  It'll happen in time. 

1 hour ago, kevinfirth said:

you are not intellectually equipped to criticise something that doesn't appear to work exactly as you'd like.

Now that is patronising. For 120 GBP one would expect LOD to work as per the slider. Especially several months after release. Without blaming others.

For your information, I have several degrees. Is that intellectual enough for you? Do I qualify to comment on the really poor LOD now? 
 

PS I don’t want it to work ‘as I like’. I simply just want it to work 

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by Ianrivaldosmith

58 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

You just can't sustain the point that 'the LOD system is poor',

You can because it is. 

9 minutes ago, Mace said:

It's not the system itself.   The system's performance and looks are wonderful when an asset is set up for the LOD's.   After all, that was the whole point of setting it up (performance & appearance).  It's the developers, not just Gaya / 1st/ 3rd parties but also as you said, yes Asobo themselves who need to implement it on all models.  It'll happen in time. 

Ok then, so they created a system that even their own assets aren’t even setup for and then released it for £££. Shoddy. 
To top it off, it is still really bad. Several months later. 

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by Ianrivaldosmith

I am going to have to agree with Ian here. Disappearing objects (or parts of objects in the case of AI plane landing gear) at close range is something that should be blatantly obvious during initial beta testing, and can (or certainly should) be seen as something that will kill immersion......and immersion is everything in flight simulation.

My OCD nature almost certainly contributes to my frustration with issues like this, but it does not change anything. I doubt that the "disappearing AI landing gear" will ever be resolved in MSFS 2020, but I need stuff like this to be sorted out before I can be confident of moving over to MSFS 2024.

2 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

I feel its more the point that:

a) a lot of users don't understand how LODs work and expect to be able to force a 2020 asset into 2024 and it work perfectly, even though it's LODs were designed for a different application.

b) some developers either don't understand or don't want to understand how LODs work in 2024 because to eliminate (a) they'd have to do a huge amount of work which users mostly expect to get for free.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, either accept that your 'compatible' content is only compatible and not fully compliant, or fork out the ££ for properly updated products that are natively built for 2024.

Props go to Aeroplane Heaven in this respect, as one of the only devs I am aware of that has released 2020 content as 2024 compatible but been entirely honest about what this actually means, rather than some developers who have released 'native' 2024 products that to all practical intents and purposes are only compatible. 

[Worth commenting as I'm on their team, that FSReborn is ONLY developing true native 2024 content going forward.  Existing 2020 products are compatible and may be updated to full 2025 native versions in the future.]

A) My list was based purely off of default in game content & code from the developers Asobo & Microsoft, I was never referring to 3rd party content. So in essence what you're saying is they don't even know how to code LODs correctly, which was exactly my point....

B) 2024 is a different ball game altogether and yet Asobo/Microsoft still manage to get LODs wrong 8months on from release....

Again, nothing to do with your average modder or mod team, this is all about the actual developers of the game not understanding basic LOD technology some 5+ years and then some from pre-2020-release....doesn't paint a pretty picture does it?!

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Ok then, so they created a system that even their own assets aren’t even setup for and then released it for £££. Shoddy. 

Oh I definitely agree.  And you're being too nice...it's worse than shoddy...it is inexcusable, if you ask me.

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

To top it off, it is still really bad. Several months later. 

No, the LOD system itself is good.  It's that they didn't set up all the models for it, that's bad.

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Now that is patronising. For 120 GBP one would expect LOD to work as per the slider. Especially several months after release. Without blaming others.

For your information, I have several degrees. Is that intellectual enough for you? Do I qualify to comment on the really poor LOD now? 
 

PS I don’t want it to work ‘as I like’. I simply just want it to work 

Nothing to do with your IQ, you can have a hundred degrees, be as intelligent as Einstein, and still not be in posession (intellectually equipped) of the right information to understand a problem.

Thing is, it is working, exactly as intended. (with properly modelled content)  The truth is, you dont like how some content is currently rendered, whether that be default native models or 2020 'compatible' content.  I shall therefore correct your statement to one that is logically and factually more correct - "I simply want it to work..as I want it to"

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

I am going to have to agree with Ian here. Disappearing objects (or parts of objects in the case of AI plane landing gear) at close range is something that should be blatantly obvious during initial beta testing, and can (or certainly should) be seen as something that will kill immersion......and immersion is everything in flight simulation.

My OCD nature almost certainly contributes to my frustration with issues like this, but it does not change anything. I doubt that the "disappearing AI landing gear" will ever be resolved in MSFS 2020, but I need stuff like this to be sorted out before I can be confident of moving over to MSFS 2024.

Chris, I dont think anyone is saying its acceptable, it isnt.  Its just that its not as simple as most people think.  And there's quite a lot of variables (some user specific) that impact on the end result.  As @Mace says, its about models not being properly set up for the perfectly adequate LOD system.

1 hour ago, MarcG said:

A) My list was based purely off of default in game content & code from the developers Asobo & Microsoft, I was never referring to 3rd party content. So in essence what you're saying is they don't even know how to code LODs correctly, which was exactly my point....

B) 2024 is a different ball game altogether and yet Asobo/Microsoft still manage to get LODs wrong 8months on from release....

Again, nothing to do with your average modder or mod team, this is all about the actual developers of the game not understanding basic LOD technology some 5+ years and then some from pre-2020-release....doesn't paint a pretty picture does it?!

Well, I think they know how to code LODs.  But there was certainly a mismatch between the functional teams that a) maintain the LOD system; and b) create the content that works with it.

10 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Nothing to do with your IQ, you can have a hundred degrees, be as intelligent as Einstein, and still not be in posession (intellectually equipped) of the right information to understand a problem.

Thing is, it is working, exactly as intended. (with properly modelled content)  The truth is, you dont like how some content is currently rendered, whether that be default native models or 2020 'compatible' content.  I shall therefore correct your statement to one that is logically and factually more correct - "I simply want it to work..as I want it to"

Incorrect. I must be on the same boat as this bunch then? :-

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ground-textures-are-blurry-lod-system-is-too-aggressive-and-loss-of-detail-in-2024-streamed-scenery-and-clouds-looks-worse-than-2020/676315

Please tell me, what average end user cares how the system is created? Or how it functions. Or why it’s malfunctioning. Or who’s fault it is.

Probably hardly any of them! They just want it to function properly. And it doesn’t, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion. 

Edited July 20, 2025Jul 20 by Ianrivaldosmith

5 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Well, I think they know how to code LODs.  But there was certainly a mismatch between the functional teams that a) maintain the LOD system; and b) create the content that works with it.

A functional mismatch?! Hahahaha my oh my the excuses are just getting worse and worse as this goes on.