You don't purchase nor own the PMDG products, nor any software for that matter.  You are purchasing a license to use it.  Read the EULA.  If anyone is utterly stupid enough to use pirated copies, they deserve all that comes.  It's not criminal but a tort, and PMDG can definitely de-license you.

Edited December 15, 2025Dec 15 by Boomer

9 minutes ago, Boomer said:

You don't purchase nor own the PMDG products, nor any software for that matter.  You are purchasing a license to use it.  Read the EULA.  If anyone is utterly stupid enough to use pirated copies, they deserve all that comes.  It's not criminal but a tort, and PMDG can definitely de-license you

Before reading further - please read my tone as genuinely intellectually curious, not antagonistic. Have to give these disclaimers because I have seen threads break down into fighting and trying to avoid that here!

Are you a lawyer? Can you point to the terms where it says so? What tortious liability are you claiming? 

I ask because you seem completely certain about this, and you using the word tort makes me think you are, in fact, a lawyer.

I’m genuinely curious, not trying to be a “word not allowed”. Is there case law or precedent you can cite?

Once again, please read my tone as curious, not antagonistic. 
 
If you aren’t a lawyer, that’s cool - no need to discuss further. 

I agree with your opinion as a lay person, but am curious as to the (actual, specific, backed by statute or precedent) legal weight of doing this. 

I do think this thread may get derailed with all this talk, so if anyone has legal knowledge and a professional opinion, PM me? or just ignore it , it’s nothing to really go over. 
 

The challenge is, until we hear what the outcome is it's hard to prognosticate. All we know is people had their accounts suspended and they need to contact support to work it out.

It is an interesting question but I suspect PMDG can operationally deny you access to your account and hence all your products. There are two clauses in their ToS, the first is narrow and applies to each specific product purchased, This license is effective until terminated. It will terminate automatically without notice from PMDG if you fail to comply with any provision of this agreement.”

But the second one is at the Account level and is quite broad, stating that PMDG provides support and access only to licensed users in good standing, "Support is provided only to licensed users in good standing. PMDG reserves the right to deny support or access if you are found to be using unauthorized or pirated copies.” And of course it is PMDG that determines standing.

So I suspect they are on pretty solid legal ground to deny someone found to be using pirated software from accessing their accounts. The argument would be whether the ToS should be interpreted narrowly or broadly, but courts generally uphold these kinds of clauses. Interestingly, the TOS did not specify a governing jurisdiction so as some have said it would depend on the jurisdiction where an action was brought.

In the end, while there may be much gnashing of teeth on the forums about such a decision, I do not think many people will risk going to court, where they will be questioned on their one potentially illegal actions, on the hope that the court might adopt a very narrow definition.

46 minutes ago, Cognita said:

It is an interesting question but I suspect PMDG can operationally deny you access to your account and hence all your products. There are two clauses in their ToS, the first is narrow and applies to each specific product purchased, This license is effective until terminated. It will terminate automatically without notice from PMDG if you fail to comply with any provision of this agreement.”

But the second one is at the Account level and is quite broad, stating that PMDG provides support and access only to licensed users in good standing, "Support is provided only to licensed users in good standing. PMDG reserves the right to deny support or access if you are found to be using unauthorized or pirated copies.” And of course it is PMDG that determines standing.

So I suspect they are on pretty solid legal ground to deny someone found to be using pirated software from accessing their accounts. The argument would be whether the ToS should be interpreted narrowly or broadly, but courts generally uphold these kinds of clauses. Interestingly, the TOS did not specify a governing jurisdiction so as some have said it would depend on the jurisdiction where an action was brought.

In the end, while there may be much gnashing of teeth on the forums about such a decision, I do not think many people will risk going to court, where they will be questioned on their one potentially illegal actions, on the hope that the court might adopt a very narrow definition.

Yeah, that seems to cover it, that's clearly specified in the terms. Thanks!

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/378486-15dec25-so-what-are-you-doing-over-your-christmas-holiday-we-have-some-ideas-if-you-are-interested

 

aiming for December 18th now

Edited December 15, 2025Dec 15 by Tuskin38

PMDG keeps repeatedly emphasizing that the 2024 version is a completely new product, not an upgrade. So, can I simply understand this as them abandoning their 2020 737NG customers? If they weren't abandoning them, why wouldn't they offer a compatibility update to the 2024 version, letting players choose for themselves? If PMDG's pricing isn't reasonable, I will definitely ditch this brand and switch to a competitor—like iFly.

28 minutes ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

PMDG keeps repeatedly emphasizing that the 2024 version is a completely new product, not an upgrade. So, can I simply understand this as them abandoning their 2020 737NG customers? If they weren't abandoning them, why wouldn't they offer a compatibility update to the 2024 version, letting players choose for themselves? If PMDG's pricing isn't reasonable, I will definitely ditch this brand and switch to a competitor—like iFly.

Things move on.  However I fly the 2020 version every week (as recently as this weekend) and it’s still a great aircraft.  And still functions.

37 minutes ago, ianb2469 said:

Things move on.  However I fly the 2020 version every week (as recently as this weekend) and it’s still a great aircraft.  And still functions.

Yes things move on and competitors either offer a free upgrade for 2024 or charge only $5 to $10—let's wait and see 

I won’t get into an argument over it but 2020 is 5 years old now, and these things aren’t free to develop.  I get a lot of joy from flying the 737NG and have had immense value for money from the 2020 version.  

It always comes down to the price-performance ratio.

And if there's little to no real development AND the status as the "top dog" has been lost, but not the seemingly arrogant marketing tactics or the attitude of treating customers as inferior – then things get difficult.

That's perfectly normal, isn't it?

Edited December 15, 2025Dec 15 by MaGer1965

1 hour ago, MayuyuYukirin said:

PMDG keeps repeatedly emphasizing that the 2024 version is a completely new product, not an upgrade. So, can I simply understand this as them abandoning their 2020 737NG customers? If they weren't abandoning them, why wouldn't they offer a compatibility update to the 2024 version, letting players choose for themselves? If PMDG's pricing isn't reasonable, I will definitely ditch this brand and switch to a competitor—like iFly.

I think we have to remember that the 2020 version of the 737 as we know it is almost 4 years old. It was released when MSFS 2024 wasn't even on the cards, back when 2020 was a couple of years old and still arguably in its infancy. 

At a certain point, you can't reasonably expect to keep getting free updates for a completely different version of the sim. And I say this as someone who has criticized PMDG on their pricing and very wary about their upgrade pricing. But to me, having some sort of fee makes sense.

It made sense to expect free 2024 support back when the 777 was first released, for example, because by that point we knew 2024 was on the horizon. But that really wasn't the case with the 737.

Despite the fact that I won 3 variants (700/800/900), I'm ok to pay an upgrade fee. People don't work for free and it's a 4 years old product already.

I'm just waiting what the upgrade fee will be. Was set to be a couple of cofee cups, but I'm scared it could pay a little bit higher than that.

Let's wait also to see the upgrades of theis msfs24 version. By their words, it's way more than just a conversion.

We'll see! Can't wait to be December 18th.

35 minutes ago, Georgleboui said:

I think we have to remember that the 2020 version of the 737 as we know it is almost 4 years old. It was released when MSFS 2024 wasn't even on the cards, back when 2020 was a couple of years old and still arguably in its infancy. 

At a certain point, you can't reasonably expect to keep getting free updates for a completely different version of the sim. And I say this as someone who has criticized PMDG on their pricing and very wary about their upgrade pricing. But to me, having some sort of fee makes sense.

It made sense to expect free 2024 support back when the 777 was first released, for example, because by that point we knew 2024 was on the horizon. But that really wasn't the case with the 737.

As I said before competitors offer a free upgrade for 2024 or charge only $5 to $10，let's wait and see on Dec 18

2 hours ago, sdirand said:

Despite the fact that I won 3 variants (700/800/900), I'm ok to pay an upgrade fee. People don't work for free and it's a 4 years old product already.

You said it yourself in your next sentences. The issue is not that fee will be charged. That is fine.

The problem is that Mathijs pretended like Robert never said that the upgrade fee is going to be quite low (couple of coffee's which puts it below 10 bucks).

 

I have an issue with them laying the groundwork for a backpedal. The head of the studio set a price range, and now the head of marketing is pretending that never happened or that the goalposts have changed.

Edited December 15, 2025Dec 15 by Farlis