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w6kd

COMPLAINT ARIANE'S NEW CON!!!!! what can we do?

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Hmmm "Good afternoon gents" well a gentleman in my book should sign a post with his name.2nd post at avsim eh? .... ripe for an Ariane con. :)I would say do your research first (at avsim) before buying any FS addon....having said that I am the first to admit to having been too eager to buy.IMHO Ariane are a terrible company and always have been. Charging for paints has been my number one bugbear as their painters have lacked basic skills and the texture mapping!An aircraft has two wings right?...how can you have top and bottom textures for only one wing!:-eek what about registrations on the wing! :-hmmmHow long has it been since the 737 has had no eyebrows? Helloooo Ariane!I have liked the Ariane 737 model from way back when despite all the c**p that goes with it.I am glad that 50 North came along and blew out the older Ariane 737's...but what has happened to 50North :-hmmm ....some cargo models please!....aaaand winglets!It may well end up with great freeware groups like POSKY providing the FS community what we need commitment, dedication , variants and mucho updates! :-hah I think I have had too much wine! *:-*

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You deal with toilets, you get, well you know....They have a reputation for a reason.Nuff said, now I'm going for some Scotch. (the heck with wine Ed!)

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Dont have ariane, dont know anything about them, but i must say something on this thread, that is a true gent doesnt need to sign his or her name on an internet forum, sorry Ed not trying to start a argument, but i totally disagree with this.However I 100% agree with you on the fact that someone should search avsim and other forums, also reviews before making a purchase.

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>Dont have ariane, dont know anything about them, but i must>say something on this thread, that is a true gent doesnt need>to sign his or her name on an internet forum, sorry Ed not>trying to start a argument, but i totally disagree with this.>>However I 100% agree with you on the fact that someone should>search avsim and other forums, also reviews before making a>purchase.>>Excuse me,...but real gents have nothing to hide from fellow simmers and other non simmers for that sake. Let me ask you,...if you meet a person who you shake hand with,...do you say "Hi I am flyinpilot212121" ?Are the words "good manners" not known anymore. :-hmmmI see no negative reasons to sign a post with your real name. On the contrary,...I am sure that 80% of all flame wars should dissapere, and a more respectfull and friendly forum atmosphere should see the daylight again. You know,....the atmosphere which once was in this community.....a loooong time ago. ;-)One idea could be not to answer a post with a non real name author in the future. :-hahAs far as I know, Tom stated a long time ago that real names should be used in AVSIM forums. Don

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Hi!now im kinda new to avsim!So i need to prove myself to be a gent now by putting my real name in? that's kinda stupid!. with ariane watching this page i dont want them to see my name (incase thay block my account) and alsoi watch myself on the internet. there are scammers about and im verry new to this page..So to come and tell me i ant no gent just for not sayn my real name on is dam right rude... if you was in england sir sayn things like that ull find urself in hot water verry soon lol :-)now let's drop the gent comment n ill call you all people? would that make u feel better? hehehehe..Ariane said if i post on avsim about this thay will suspend my account and take away what i paid for!!UK4DTRoss A.K.A gent

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To the OP,You asked if there is anything that can be done about this newest disgrace from Ariane. Yes, the same thing many of us have been doing about Ariane, Captain Sim, and other companies for a long time....just stay away from them. A quick search in the AVSIM forums will yield much evidence about the shadowy ways of some payware providers. Do your research, read the reviews, and be prepared for disappointment if you don't. The Ariane saga is getting old, but I am still amazed by how many people continue to fall into the Tishma trap. The same goes for CS; time after time we hear of there faults, especially with customer support, yet we continue to see posts of recently dissatisfied customers. Please everyone, do your research first. It can save you a lot of time, money, and hassle.-Jeremy

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And PMDG charges 3.95 Euro for a 12 month extended download period. Once again paying more for something you already paid for. Just a thought as I laugh at Ariane. Also why does PMDG charge in Euros instead of US Dollars when they are a US founded company and employs more US based people than from any other country from which their staff is from. Sure translates into a nice return on the US dollar when converted back.

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Since some time now, I can see especially social behaviour, general interest and risk awareness of people continuously degrading.Electronic devices, media and technology are quickly evolving and penetrating people's lives in many areas, but the average joe has minimal to no knowledge of the mechanisms behind the scenes.A common trend is to move away from physical media and towards online licensing models and pay per use fees. By purchasing let's say software or media (music,...), instead of getting a boxed product and being able to install it whenever and wherever one likes, software/media nowadays is usually downloaded and activated online. This kind of "protection" is beneficial for the company selling software or media or thelikes, but a big disadvantage for the customer since the freedom to decide when and where to install or use the software is completely handed over to a 3rd party, the vendor. He is in total control, and able to completely lock a customer out and prevent the usage of the purchased product at all.I for my part are pretty unhappy with how this phenomenon grows on a daily basis, and in time it gets harder to escape - what alternatives do you have if music CD production is cancelled one day? And if Sony Music decides to not longer let you listen the downloaded album, does anyone really think there's any probate measure to fight such a decision?Fact is that 3rd parties slowly and silently take over, people only faintly realize if they experience problems, but usually the mass keeps being happy with what they get and never ask - welcome to the new world.Andreas

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Wow....I guess I will have to start buying more CD's.As far as Ariane is concerned, there record has been made very clear here at AVSIM as well as several other forums on the web. If someone is going to fork out that much money for a FS addon, they need to do there research first. I feel sorry for the original poster, but all of the info he needed was right at his fingertips before he made the purchase. I'm waiting for "signmanbob" to come in here and promote the living #### out of Ariane.

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Dan,there is a huge difference between the practices of PMDG and Ariane. It seems as if Ariane now charges you every time you want to re-install the airplane since they have to issue an "reactivation ticket" (although I'm not sure wether installing on the very same computer with the same hardware needs reactivation).PMDG give you the OPTION to have their servers function as a back up server for you. They certainly don't charge you for re-installing. Why it is even necessary to have this kind of service is beyond me since IMHO any sane person who has dealt with computers should start off with making a backup copy of any software they purchase or download. I have all thousands of euros worth of files on a NAS, a different computer and on DVD's :DAlso one of the bigger online shops for flight simulation software (don't recall if it's simmarket, Aerosoft or some other) has your purchased software downloadable only for a limited time but you can purchase against a small fee the same kind of service PMDG offers.

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Continuing the OT sub-thread; I'm with Ed and Staffan on the "good manners" thing. It's always amazed me that absolutely anyone can become a forum member using not only some strange user name, but also have their true identity hidden.I'm not too sure about your memory concerning Avsim requiring real names Staffan; maybe it was something that was discussed at some point. I do, however, remember just after Avsim website launched, Project Freeware were given an Avsim support forum. Unfortunately, we (Project Freeware) felt it was appropriate for forum visitors to not only be required to register their true identity before gaining access, but to also use their real name in forum posts. Sadly, Avsim disagreed with this and eventually Project Freeware moved to another support forum.Also, as this is an English written forum, a bit more effort in the areas of grammar and spelling would be nice. It's actually pretty embarassing to read some forum posts by people who are obviously not native English speakers, and yet are able to write English so much better than those who are apparently English and presumeably English educated! I know some people will obviously think "why bother"; my kids are always laughing at the way I send SMS text's, but seriously, init, gr8, gonna, cu, luv, 2moro, u, coz etc are not real English words and I get really ###### at peoples laziness.Ooops! Sorry went off at a bit of tangent there. Anyway, I'm all for the "only reply to real names" use of the forums until Avsim actually do the right thing and impose it :-)PaulAlso, how on earth does this become "Hangar Chat"? I've no personal experience of Ariane, but have to say if wanted to research users opinions on an FS9 product, I wouldn't be looking in the bloody "Hangar Chat" forum!!!

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Continuing the OT sub-thread; I'm with Ed and Staffan on the "good manners" thing. It's always amazed me that absolutely anyone can become a forum member using not only some strange user name, but also have their true identity hidden.With the real threat these days of identity theft, I won't give anyone on an online forum anything but my first name, I'll give my full name to AVSIM for administration purposes, but not to the general public. That' just the way it is these days unfortunately. It's never a good idea to give any personal information about yourself online, that includes your Name. Your name is the most treasured thing you have, you need to do all you can to protect it. Something as innocuous as a name a criminal can use to steal your identity. All they would have to do is do a search on one of the unscrupulous personal information sites, which some may include your Social Security number which some how they may have gotten a hold of. Then you'll be spending the next seven years trying to repair the damage, wondering how anybody got your information. Identity theft is a real problem these days, and you have to do what is needed to protect yourself.

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Where on the website did it state that Arianne would propvide you with a free, unlimited number of re-intallations for an unlimited period of time?Unless it explicitly did, your complaint in groundless.

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The name used to sign a post is irrelevant and has no connection with good manners. Good manners is solely related to the style and content of a post. Indeed, I suggest that attacking a poster for not using a real name rather than responding to it rationally is an example of bad mannersApart fromm anything else how do we know that a "real" name is real? How can you prove to us that your real name is Staffan?I've used my initials here since I joined and am unaware of any rule requiring "real" names.

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Hi all..Ooooook... i can see some of you are lost with my post...When i paid for the 737... 12 + month's ago... there was no fee to switch it on.... ariane back in them days did not do things this way...so it'a not part of the agreement when i clickd on buy now...?as it was not invented at the time of sale..this new scam has only been out for 4-5 months... so how would i know of this?? :-(.. so now i find my 737 in the bin. If i was told this b4 i paid for it then i would not of compleated the sale....this just came up n bit me in the bud....i feel so STUPID lol... im new to avsim so i didnt know of ariane and Peter Tishma... A.K.A Wa*ker... :-(.. no wonder he's got a bad name. Why dose he still do this? has he no shame? or pride?Russ UK4DT...... <------------ Russ is my name. no way will i stick my last name up!! ALL ISP's say... DONT POST YOUR INFO ON ANY PAGE'S i.e last name ect ect... hackers can and will find you...Russ UK4DT

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I agree Russ. The "deal" isn't what you signed up for when you bought it. However, i doubt a lawsuit is worth it. You'd probably win, but at what cost.So you make your point know with your wallet. And here.The nature of this venue is to build computers and tweak them to improve our experience. We certainly need a way to re-load a product we bought whenever we wish. Perhaps there is a price that we could pay for that privilege right at the point of purchase. Maybe $29.95 gets you 3 re-installs and 49.95 gives you 10. I just thew those up as an example.But whatever it is, we need the ability to re-load without paying $20.00. Thats outrageous.And on the other sub topic, I too have been the victim of the "Avsim name ######'s" in the past. So anyone willing to come and prove that my screen name is not my real name, go ahead and start your own lawsuit. Until then, I comply.Rufus Kimchoc

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"Ariane said if i post on avsim about this thay will suspend my account and take away what i paid for!!"Huh? Regards,John

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Avsim must have your real name on your account when you join, nicknames can be used in the forum posts.There are perhaps some commercial product forums here that require real names in their forums for customer service etc.From the Avsim "Terms of Use" ;Your account must adhere to the following: 1.) Your user ID (Nickname) can be your choice, but you must provide your REAL FULL First and Last Name. Any accounts that do not have a real full first and last name provided will be removed. Note: Your username cannot be changed once you register, so please be careful when deciding on that. If you want to change your username, you will need to contact the forum admin to remove your account.

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"Russ UK4DT...... <------------ Russ is my name. no way will i stick my last name up!! ALL ISP's say... DONT POST YOUR INFO ON ANY PAGE'S i.e last name ect ect... hackers can and will find you."To comment on this sub thread, there is no way in hades a hacker can ruin your day just based on your first and last name appearing in a public forum. Nor can your identity be stolen. However, posting your email, first and last name of course can lead to problems. Or posting your first and last name with other personal information. However, does our last name need to be on every post to establish our bona fides here? I don't think so. I believe Avsim's rules: we furnish our real identity when signing up for their site. I don't think those rules extend to having to sign off every post with our first and last name. I worry less about hackers and more about those who are a few cylinders short of full horsepower. Over the years some people in the forums seem to take being disagreed with a bit too personally, to the point where I wonder is some on the fringe seek out their perceived antagonists to wreak havoc.I've always signed 90 pct. of my posts here as John and only have added my last name when discussing one of my freeware releases, in part so those reading those threads can recognize the product author was contributing. I've never worried about Ariane or any other product developer knowing who I am. As long as I don't libel a company or try to be malicious in my actions, I live in a country where I can freely express my feelings about a product. If any company tried to stifle my license based on a critique of their practices, I would make certain that future buyers would be aware and have such a threat as food for thought. But I'd also make sure I could document such a threat lest it be construed as libelous.Regards,John (Cillis)

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Ho John!> worry less about hackers and more about those who are a few cylinders short of full horsepower...... (I love that comment... may i use it at work? ;-). lolyes i agree this post was also to warn people like myself who have fell into the tishma trap... avsim prob suport this post as Tishma has no support for thos who deisgn aircraft panel's ect.... like PSS..Uk2000scenery ect ect......thank's to tishma he stole he's work and used it to feed he's greed! i bet he felt gutted when all he's software was removed from stors and he's name put in the blackbox..... just go to show that he cheated them aswell...I will make some calls tomorrow. i did take screenshot's of the sale. (like i do with all my online sales) and send that off to the UK justice system. see what thay say. :-)Who els has had problems with ariane? Russ UK4DT

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I'm not lost with your original post. My point is still where in the agreement (as you call it) does it state that you are entitled to free re-registration for the indefinite future. If (as I suspect) it doesn't then you've no right to it and it's just too bad if Arianne start to charge.Incidentally, what evidence have you that Peter Tishma is still involved with Arianne?

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"Incidentally, what evidence have you that Peter Tishma is still involved with Arianne?"That's a great question. I'd love to know the answer myself.My sense of evaluating a business "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck...."Ariane's website. advert. emails and their approach to promoting product hasn't changed one iota since the birth of the company. It's still designed, in my opinion, like an infomercial trying to make the description of their product justify the price of the product. That style of advertising dates back to the beginning, back to the days when Peter T. was alleged to be running the show.The other item to note is the nature of their emails to the customer. If there's even one shred of truth, the idea that a company can consistently look for revenue streams and try to create prose in which to justify them leads me to believe someone with a talent for words is still at the helm. Who could that be? Your guess is as good as mine, but Peter T. sure had a talent for words, didn't he?To me, payware comes down to a set of expectations and certainty that I will be treated as a committed hobbyist, not as someone out to steal. Flight One, Carenado, PMDG, and Dreamfleet all serve as the example I look at when buying payware. The best way to vote is with our wallets, and I feel our posts are more effective when we suggest who we recommend, vs. who we do not. Regards,John

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hi John.....i could not agree with you more...now that iv met avsim..... and a Big Hello and Thank you for letting me into the fourm!...sorry to come in on bad term's... just wanted to get some advise... but from what i have recived from avsim and the fourms im able to make the right choice in paying for a aircraft...Russ. UK4DT L0(

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Good afternoon gents!Ok a new con from ariane! Buyer's beware!If you buy there aircraft and want to format/reinstall. it will cost you another 10 pounds $20 on top! (some kind of admin fee??)This is Bulls*it. my 737vce is 12 monthd old. this fee was not out in force back then!. and now im not allowd to use it anymore untill i pay more money!....Trading standards may want to hear about this...if you want a ariane aircraft then check this link first.(i wish i did)....http://www.avsim.com/pages/0902/pt_again.htmlYou will find there software on sale with other venders.. you will still hafto pay ariane the fee..This is what there page says about it..Reactivation Ticket. Due to the growing number of claims over new pc's, changing motherboards, changing disks, reformatting, re-installations and other reasons that lead to re-installation on more than one occasion, there will now be a charge for re-activations to cover the growing and very high costs of administrating these requests.This charge will lead to a monitoring of a users hardware system when the request is sent in. This ticket will not guarantee or allow users to install to multiple PC's - users may only install to the PC that they own and that they use in relation to the original order purchased for the original product meaning that the ticket can ONLY be used on the product that is being activated and not installed to any more than one PC.The cost of a ticket is issued against both old and newer orders from any previous year and is based on the added cost to our company to cover the growing amount of requests to re-install older products and for administration costs to trace orders, to check them against receipts and to process them and send out new activations and then to continue to support the older product going back to 2005. We cannot be expected to support these older products.This type of charge and its related cost is standard across the industry and in no way is made to make a profit - the charge covers the costs involved in employing support staff to administrate a large amount of user requests (especially over the weekend). The purchase of tickets or 'credits' has become a standard in the industry although this ticket is not to be considered a credit for any multiple opportunity. By purchasing this ticket the user understand that it is to cover the high support and admin costs that are not covered by products issued on a once-only use format.We would ask all users to bear in mind that the original price of the product paid for one activation license and originally held provision for what was thought to be a reasonable amount of support and re-activation traffic and in no way allowed for multiple activations of any kind over any period. Due to the changing situation and due to users jumping back and forth between FS9 and FSX this charge has also been brought in to help to cover the high costs of administration and support (especially going back to 2005).WARNING: This ticket in no way allows for any user or anyone to conduct multiple activations of our products. Anyone transferring any license to any other PC or found to be abusing this system will be denied any further activations or products from this company and any and all of its affiliates and distributors. Any abuse of any ticketing system will be reported to other web sites and flight sim shops as well as the offending users credit card company who, upon being given an abusing users details will have the right to register the related abuse action to the transaction as fraudulent.can we do anything?Who has had problems with ariane?? i would like to hear a few storysabout this company... also to show others not to spend there cash on this rubbish.thank's all....and let's not burn this post... i think it will help a few people.UK4DT

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Re: Ariane, Captain Sim, FSD, et al.1. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware)2. There's one born every minute.3. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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