Yes -you are right-some others come to mind right now..

You mean like some of those who think "the only good software is free"?

The point keeps being made that we need to teach people about right and wrong. I submit that even a thief knows the difference. That's why when he steals from a store, he puts the item under his coat when he walks out. I tend to think people download files they shouldn't, not because they don't know it's wrong, but because they have no reason to think they will get caught.Bob

Bob- I have, on a few occasions, brought a pencil home from the office. Theft or a perk? The line between right and wrong gets a bit fuzzy at times. It may well depend on the value placed on the item by the thief. I would suppose download pirates rationalize that since it cost nothing to create the 2nd - to millionth copy of the song: therefore a copy has no value and thus is free to anybody who wishes it.I know that quite a few god fearing folks feel that way about the lovely chestnuts falling from the trees on my lawn!Does cost establish value or is simple ownership sufficient?Perhaps we need the guidance of Fr. Bill in this discussion.Alex Reid

You mean like some of those who think "the only good software is free"?

People like that are foolish, however if those kinds of people would just learn to use FOSS software, rather than just pirating commercial stuff, they would at least be decent...

Terry, Is that just a slip?File sharing isn't theft...it's not illegal...it's good :( The "crack" is theft...doesn't matter if it get's shipped in a paper bag...the way it was done 20 years ago.It's a critical distinction...that you made yourself already. :( Using a crack is theft.

to the above point; and the following -

The point keeps being made that we need to teach people about right and wrong. I submit that even a thief knows the difference. That's why when he steals from a store, he puts the item under his coat when he walks out. I tend to think people download files they shouldn't, not because they don't know it's wrong, but because they have no reason to think they will get caught.

read this -http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=268506full understanding that the action is wrong, and just doesn't care ... --

... I tend to think people download files they shouldn't ...

I'd say the emphasis is on files they shouldn't...not downloading.Downloading unrestricted data good. :( Downloading copyrighted data with consent is good.Somethind about..."baby and bathwater" :( Cracks are the issue not the internet...is that not right?...

Alex, :( IMO..It

I'd say the emphasis is on files they shouldn't...not downloading.Downloading unrestricted data good. :( Downloading copyrighted data with consent is good.Somethind about..."baby and bathwater" :( Cracks are the issue not the internet...is that not right?...

Not exactly... a copyright allows, legally, for the owner of said copyright to control distribution. That's the part everyone keeps forgetting, ignoring or just don't realize.

Bob- I have, on a few occasions, brought a pencil home from the office. Theft or a perk? The line between right and wrong gets a bit fuzzy at times. It may well depend on the value placed on the item by the thief. I would suppose download pirates rationalize that since it cost nothing to create the 2nd - to millionth copy of the song: therefore a copy has no value and thus is free to anybody who wishes it.I know that quite a few god fearing folks feel that way about the lovely chestnuts falling from the trees on my lawn!Does cost establish value or is simple ownership sufficient?Perhaps we need the guidance of Fr. Bill in this discussion.Alex Reid

Well, who among us has never,ever brought a pencil home, or gone over the speed limit , or thought ill of some one. Indeed, the line between right and wrong can be very fuzzy. Sorry, I don't get the chestnut part. My wife says I own many things she thinks are worthless. Maybe value is in the eye of the owner.Not sure the person in the locked thread was a pirate(I am sure I will catch it for that one). He was certianly wrong(don't forget I said that) to offer his software for free. He was just offering a trade(still wrong). I think a real pirate is only out for himself.Bob

Downloading copyrighted data with consent is good.

Not exactly... a copyright allows, legally, for the owner of said copyright to control distribution. That's the part everyone keeps forgetting, ignoring or just don't realize.

Ed I

Not exactly... a copyright allows, legally, for the owner of said copyright to control distribution. That's the part everyone keeps forgetting, ignoring or just don't realize.

And that's my point exactly. Owners/ developers/artists can't control distribution by pointless EULA's and instead want Governments to control it for them by monitoring and /or removing or severely curtailing P2P file sharing freedoms to billions of people rather than going after the crackers and pirates who are the nub of the problem. Even the BSA admits that many people download illegal software not knowing it is illegal. Who are the BSA? The Business Software Alliance (BSA) who appoints itself as "the voice of the world's software industry". Their members represent any big names you can think of in business software starting with Microsoft. Let's get some facts from the BSA on the table (always remembering that the BSA's focus is on making money for their software industry members. Like the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) they have partisan views:Quote from the Business Software Alliance Website: "Software piracy is the unauthorized copying or distribution of copyrighted software. This can be done by copying, downloading, sharing, selling, or installing multiple copies onto personal or work computers. When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to use it, not the actual software. The license is what tells you how many times you can install the software, therefore it

Thanks Terry...

"Software piracy is the unauthorized copying or distribution of copyrighted software. This can be done by copying, downloading, sharing, selling, or installing multiple copies onto personal or work computers. When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to use it, not the actual software. The license is what tells you how many times you can install the software, therefore it

--------- Indeed, the line between right and wrong can be very fuzzy. Sorry, I don't get the chestnut part. ---------Bob

Bob- Horse chestnuts, apart from their beauty, are regarded by most as a nuisance and of no value. Rake 'em up with the leaves and burn them! But there is a small commercial value to chestnuts- put them on the floor in the corners of your rooms and you will have no spiders in your house! A few stores actually sell them in small bags for this purpose.So, is the passerby who picks some off my lawn, doing so knowing they really do have a "value"? That's theft. But if I rake 'em up and put them in the garbage, I have declared they have no value- so are you welcome to take them??Same consideration with refundable pop cans in my garbage can - if a picker removes them to get the refund- is that theft?Those are pretty fuzzy lines between right and wrong! Surely a topic for discussion in Philosophy 101!Alex Reid

Bob- Horse chestnuts, apart from their beauty, are regarded by most as a nuisance and of no value. Rake 'em up with the leaves and burn them! But there is a small commercial value to chestnuts- put them on the floor in the corners of your rooms and you will have no spiders in your house! A few stores actually sell them in small bags for this purpose.So, is the passerby who picks some off my lawn, doing so knowing they really do have a "value"? That's theft. But if I rake 'em up and put them in the garbage, I have declared they have no value- so are you welcome to take them??Same consideration with refundable pop cans in my garbage can - if a picker removes them to get the refund- is that theft?Those are pretty fuzzy lines between right and wrong! Surely a topic for discussion in Philosophy 101!Alex Reid

again-easy to talk about chestnuts and pencils-until the chestnuts and pencils are the product of your hard work and being taken freely. I'd like one of your three monitors Alex-you don't mind if I take it do you? I really want a third monitor, I think I deserve it, and Robin Hood would have done the same (or should I be saying Robin Hood is presently doing the same)? :lol

Orly? ...Horse chestnuts? Alex, you have no idea how sincerely I enjoy your posts ;)I will gather Horse chestnuts. :(Danny

Bob- Horse chestnuts, apart from their beauty, are regarded by most as a nuisance and of no value. Rake 'em up with the leaves and burn them! But there is a small commercial value to chestnuts- put them on the floor in the corners of your rooms and you will have no spiders in your house! A few stores actually sell them in small bags for this purpose.So, is the passerby who picks some off my lawn, doing so knowing they really do have a "value"? That's theft. But if I rake 'em up and put them in the garbage, I have declared they have no value- so are you welcome to take them??Same consideration with refundable pop cans in my garbage can - if a picker removes them to get the refund- is that theft?Those are pretty fuzzy lines between right and wrong! Surely a topic for discussion in Philosophy 101!Alex Reid

So the developer puts his software (chestnuts) out there (in the yard). A passerby(pirate) sees it (them). The developer is not home so it (they) look unattended....and so forth.I was a music major. Never took a philosophy course. I did take a conteporary womanhood course , once. 120 women and about 20 guys.Bob