----------Torrents aren

How many freeware users have intentions to donate to the author when asked?Most users do but basically all never follow through. There are forum posts that testify to that.Likewise, I suggest the number of pirates that actually do purchase, as you say, is much smaller than you imagine.And surely, they must get how their methods empower less ethical users.But honestly, doesn't everyone want to rationalize their own digressions, but really, SO WHAT

For each of you who say a developer is out nothing because there is no physical inventory... the courts disagree with you. That's the reality of it all. If you were to try that as a defense in court, the judge wouldn't buy it. So... just stop with that line of reasoning... as it's not reasonable from a legal standpoint.Courts disagree with your stance. Period. Example: Software Theft in Court

For each of you who say a developer is out nothing because there is no physical inventory... the courts disagree with you. That's the reality of it all. If you were to try that as a defense in court, the judge wouldn't buy it. So... just stop with that line of reasoning... as it's not reasonable from a legal standpoint.Courts disagree with your stance. Period. Example: Software Theft in Court

I'm glad to see that, but I would like to see the people downloading the files prosecuted to, not just the uploaders.

The vendor's inventory has not been reduced- so it is hard to argue that he has been hurt.

While in some cases that may be true, Alex. In many cases only the "keygen crack" is distributed. The actual content is still downloaded from the vendor.Are you seriously going to argue that 20,000 downloads of an 80+Mb file that will never generate any revenue doesn't bring harm to the vendor? Do you really imagine that bandwidth is free?

For each of you who say a developer is out nothing because there is no physical inventory... the courts disagree with you. That's the reality of it all. If you were to try that as a defense in court, the judge wouldn't buy it. So... just stop with that line of reasoning... as it's not reasonable from a legal standpoint.Courts disagree with your stance. Period. Example: Software Theft in Court

Ed- I have great sympathy for developers and quite appreciate the difficult economics of the business. But I believe the estimates of losses thru' file sharing piracy are considerably overstated. Agreed that illegal file sharing is widespread- but if there was suddenly a magic solution to stop it, do you really believe that developer revenue would appreciably increase? My guess is that any sales gain would be pretty small potatoes, as the pirates would simply move onto other excitements to prove their adolescent skills, such as stealing sporty cars instead of virtual airplanes.Regards Alex Reid

But I believe the estimates of losses thru' file sharing piracy are considerably overstated.

Alex I

I'm glad to see that, but I would like to see the people downloading the files prosecuted to, not just the uploaders.

That can be very hazardous in some situations, where it's the actual disc being downloaded, and not the keygen. Who's to say that the person doesn't own a legit copy, just their disc got trashed. Who would want to pay another 50 bucks or so because of a disc getting damaged. I can think of a few times where discs I have bought literally cracked from the inside out from normal use after the warranty. Once, with a certain game, that I'll just call SHOC, I bought a copy of the collectors edition, that's the UK import steel cased edition, and the disc cracked on me from the inside out from normal usage, so I went through a ton of hoops to get it replaced, wound up sending it back to the UK, and they sent me a new copy through the mail, and that one cracked after the warranty expired, and apparently a lot of people who bought that specific edition had that same problem. Why would someone in that situation be inclined to buy the game again because the game disc was damaged from a manufacturing defect while out of warranty.

That can be very hazardous in some situations, where it's the actual disc being downloaded, and not the keygen. Who's to say that the person doesn't own a legit copy, just their disc got trashed. Who would want to pay another 50 bucks or so because of a disc getting damaged. I can think of a few times where discs I have bought literally cracked from the inside out from normal use after the warranty. Once, with a certain game, that I'll just call SHOC, I bought a copy of the collectors edition, that's the UK import steel cased edition, and the disc cracked on me from the inside out from normal usage, so I went through a ton of hoops to get it replaced, wound up sending it back to the UK, and they sent me a new copy through the mail, and that one cracked after the warranty expired, and apparently a lot of people who bought that specific edition had that same problem. Why would someone in that situation be inclined to buy the game again because the game disc was damaged from a manufacturing defect while out of warranty.

All products sold through the Flight1 wrapper can be reinstalled without issue. Thus there is no need to go to a pirate site to obtain that which you have legal right to have.

Bob- Do you never wander through COSTCO munching on all the food samples they are offering- without the slightest intention of buying any of those products?---------------When you steal a book, you have reduced the vendor's inventory- something, for which he has paid and expects to be repaid by a customer. A stolen book can never be used to recoup the vendor's investment. It is real money out of his pocket.But software online means unlimited inventory availability and each "copy" costs nothing. Stolen software via download costs the vendor nothing- OTHER THAN the loss of an OPPORTUNITY for revenue. The real question is- Would the downloader have actually shelled out money if that was a prerequirement for downloading?? ---------------What we don't know is A: whether those pirated copies were taken for conscious use- that's theft. OR B: if they were downloaded for curiosity/ evaluation purposes and then rejected as not of interest to the downloader. OR C: simply downloaded as evidence of the pirate's cleverness, with no intention to really use it.Only the first case- A, represents a loss to the vendor. B & C are the equivalent of shoppers taking home elaborate product brochures, samples and specifications, but never purchasing the product.Alex Reid

Actually, I don't try many samples. But I have to believe those samples are put out there with producers knowing that only a small percentage of people may buy. I can't believe that a dev puts his software out there, especially if it is not intended to be sampled, so that someone can pirate it.I don't think it makes any difference what the illegal copy is used for. It is a copy that wasn't paid for.That is a question that needs to be answered. With the rise of netbooks, more and more people will not be owning hard copies of anything, as they will be only downloading things. Yes, they can get an external optical drive, but I wonder how many will.Bob

What we don't know is A: whether those pirated copies were taken for conscious use- that's theft. OR B: if they were downloaded for curiosity/ evaluation purposes and then rejected as not of interest to the downloader. OR C: simply downloaded as evidence of the pirate's cleverness, with no intention to really use it.Only the first case- A, represents a loss to the vendor. B & C are the equivalent of shoppers taking home elaborate product brochures, samples and specifications, but never purchasing the product.Alex Reid

B & C are not as you claim. Downloading someone's pirated software isn't a 'product brochure', that would be a web site or file like a PDF, not a fully functional copy of the software. You can't go into a place of business and obtain your own sample where none is offered.

---------That is a question that needs to be answered. With the rise of netbooks, more and more people will not be owning hard copies of anything, as they will be only downloading things. Yes, they can get an external optical drive, but I wonder how many will.Bob

Interesting you raise that point. I rarely to never purchase a book. Instead I simply go on line to my local Public Library and request it. If it it is a new book, I give them details of title/author/publisher/ISBN and they acquire it for me to take out on loan. Now I know Libraries have some sort of royalty arrangement with publishers- but I doubt that it comes anywhere close to the "lost" revenue from hundreds or thousands of sales foregone to library lendings.Since I paid nothing to read this new book (apart from taxes to support my library system. It is illegal here for a public library to charge a membership fee), am I considered a book pirate?Alex Reid

Interesting you raise that point. I rarely to never purchase a book. Instead I simply go on line to my local Public Library and request it. If it it is a new book, I give them details of title/author/publisher/ISBN and they acquire it for me to take out on loan. Now I know Libraries have some sort of royalty arrangement with publishers- but I doubt that it comes anywhere close to the "lost" revenue from hundreds or thousands of sales foregone to library lendings.Since I paid nothing to read this new book (apart from taxes to support my library system. It is illegal here for a public library to charge a membership fee), am I considered a book pirate?Alex Reid

Hardly. Because that book was put there to be loaned out. If you make a copy of that book, then you are a book pirate.I buy most my books in ebook form and put them on my Palm Pilot (remember those). Those books can only be put on my device and no one elses.Bob

With safeguards computer software can be and is

Hardly. Because that book was put there to be loaned out. If you make a copy of that book, then you are a book pirate.I buy most my books in ebook form and put them on my Palm Pilot (remember those). Those books can only be put on my device and no one elses.Bob

Bob- Does the book author receive any royalty from library use by probably hundreds or thousands of readers of that single copy? Does the author see me as a freeloader?--------------(No, don't think I've ever seen a Palm Pilot. Heck, I was retired long before I even saw a PC- let alone owned one & still haven't figured out how to download.) Reading a real paper book in your favourite recliner is one of life's noble pleasures! - as is a smooth FS IFR landing in 1/4 mile vis!Season's Greetings Alex Reid