Come on, Im sure there are a lot of not very interesting facts about yourself which you are just dying to tell us.GG.

Okay, you asked for it :( Tonight I had a Big Mac for dinner, and my kids had McNuggets.At any rate, let's get this topic back on the subject of Piracy instead of outsourcing issues which aren't really relevant to FS consumers.Didn't the "Simmy Me Timbers" Bay change hands recently and were they not bought out by a legitimate company?They said they'd only take down "illegal software" from their site, so I questioned them on the definition of illegal.My email to them:No "legal" content will be removed?What about "illegal" content? My software is being pirated on your website. Does my software count as "illegal content" since it's cracked software that is violating the EULA? Please advise.Their reply:We and the rest of the world doesnt give a sh*t about any EULAs.Its pointless crap that you press "OK" on.-- So much for hope and change I guess...

Well, I wouldn't say all Indian programmers are bad. Such a negative sweeping generalizing is absurd and unfair as MGH rightly pointed out. In fact, I hired Indian programmers to create the 2010 Config Manager for FS2Crew.But I will say this because I speak from experience and because I live in Asia and I deal with non anglophones all the time: If you're outsourcing work, they may be cheaper at first glance based on a pure hourly rate. But you really also have to factor in communication and cross cultural issues. Those issues do come with a real cost more often than not.Now I can phone up an American, or British or Australian or Canadian programmer, and there's no language or cultural barrier really. We're all on the same page generally and communication is effortless, which helps smoothen things out.But when you're dealing with someone from a different culture and language, and you're dealing with a very technical subject, it can create a lot of extra complexities and costs that you may not have initially factored in. At the end of the day, that $15/hr programmer from the Ukraine might wind up costing in reality $30 an hour or more when you factor the extra complexities in.

There can be problems as you say. However, I only dealt with the directors and team leaders - all of whom had good english. I left them to deal with members of their teams so as to avoid the communications and cultural problems you mention. This worked well and they delivered on time and within budget.

Come on, Im sure there are a lot of not very interesting facts about yourself which you are just dying to tell us.Only one per post please...but feel free to post as many times as you like And please stay focused only on the actual facts, rather than getting lost in commenting someone elses fact; if you have to comment on someone elses fact then do so, but you must end with a fact about yourself or your message will be deleted.GG.

Seven posts and you're already an Administrator. How did you do it?

Outsourcing to India is usually done by big Corporations, and believe me its not for the money.. it politics!.Let it sink in and think about the region and who benefits with a western oriented India.I work at a big US Chemical corporation, and the Indians are smart, speak good english, no problems, but some.. time differences, cultural differences, and how on earth do you want to control some things from the other side of the world? In the end it is less expensive then having more expensive people on the site then working by email and phone.It will be okay for internet business, software and such.. but come on, trying to controll trucks in Germany to load in the Netherlands from India? There is more behind this sudden 'outsourcing to India' boom!.Johan

All of which has nothing to do with software piracy. :(

Yes indeed sir!just venting..

I really do not understand why there is even a debate regarding theft. My view is if you aquire anything that is not willingly given to you by the rightful owner or you do not pay the owner or their authorized agent a mutually agreed compensation for it, that is theft. Wrong both morally and legally. That is the way I was taught and what I believe anyway, and I hope that this is true everywhere and not just in my idyllic mind. The truth of it is simply; some people just don't have the ability to tell themselves it is wrong. The damage that piracy causes has already debated and the bottom line that I see is ( in the case of software ) how can it be stopped or brought to an absolute minimum without putting legitimate buyers through so many hoops that it drives them away? For software developers that must be a real nightmare of an issue to deal with. I do know that if I do happen across anyone using pirated 'stuff' I will be happy to shame them, scold them, or whatever I can peacefully do to have them see the error of their ways. After all for this hobby to continue to be of interest and worth our time, we need the developers of software to stay around as much as they need us to stay interested and make legitimate purchases. As always,...., IMHO.Happy Holidays to ALL!Mel

I really do not understand why there is even a debate regarding theft. My view is if you aquire anything that is not willingly given to you by the rightful owner or you do not pay the owner or their authorized agent a mutually agreed compensation for it, that is theft. Wrong both morally and legally. That is the way I was taught and what I believe anyway, and I hope that this is true everywhere and not just in my idyllic mind. The truth of it is simply; some people just don't have the ability to tell themselves it is wrong. The damage that piracy causes has already debated and the bottom line that I see is ( in the case of software ) how can it be stopped or brought to an absolute minimum without putting legitimate buyers through so many hoops that it drives them away? For software developers that must be a real nightmare of an issue to deal with. I do know that if I do happen across anyone using pirated 'stuff' I will be happy to shame them, scold them, or whatever I can peacefully do to have them see the error of their ways. After all for this hobby to continue to be of interest and worth our time, we need the developers of software to stay around as much as they need us to stay interested and make legitimate purchases. As always,...., IMHO.Happy Holidays to ALL!Mel

Put so very well. But there are some who, for reasons I don't profess to understand, choose to take what you summed up so nicely to a deeper level. I can't count how many times I've read posts that start with a disclaimer, such as "first off, let me just say that I don't condone piracy" and then add a "but" to it. In my perfect world pirates would be exposed, and then given punishment so far beyond what the human mind can comprehend that the thought of stealing the efforts of other people's labor would send chills down your body and send you into a fear induced coma. Then again, in my perfect world piracy wouldn't exist in the first place. I have had something stolen from me that was not a posession I could hold in my hands and sell. It's called piece of mind, and it was taken after my house was robbed of actual posessions last Christmas. Let them try that again now! I've got a few surprises waiting for anyone who enters my house uninvited now - and I hope developers can come up with something too.

Thank you for the for the kind praise Jeremy. As you can easily surmise, I did mean all forms of theft at any level. I'm very sorry to read about you horribly spoiled Christmas last year. I truly hope this year is much, much better! My family was also victimized a few years back but thankfully not on Christmas. What a horrible feeling! The worst of it was I and the police both knew who it was but couldn't prove it because the rectal orifice's friends and family all lied about his whereabouts at the time. Later I had the infuriating experience of overhearing him tell one of his buddies that he was entitled to do such a thing because the people he stole from didn't need their possessions as much as he did! I just came real close to going postal. On a brighter note there was some justice eventually. My friend who was police chief at the time caught him coming out of a elderly neighbors house carrying a purse and some other items. My friend called me to tell me the news and said," You know how bad I wanted to shoot that guy in the butt when he ran, I really hate chasing people." I offered to do it for him but he politely declined. The criminal actually sat and cried and said that what he was going through wasn't fair! I am happy as you know what, to report that he now has a state institution address. You know, I'm still angry anyway? People like these are unable to put themselves in the place of their victims so as to understand the nature of their deeds and harm that it does emotionally, unless they have the same thing happen to them and even then I doubt if they can perceive the connection between their feelings and other peoples feelings.Sorry,......, this is so far off topic. Off topic is an understatement of epic proportions. Kinda therapeutic though. :( Regards,Mel

In my perfect world pirates would be exposed, and then given punishment so far beyond what the human mind can comprehend that the thought of stealing the efforts of other people's labor would send chills down your body and send you into a fear induced coma.

And how would more serious offences, such as murder rape, and paedophilia, be punished?

Sorry,......, this is so far off topic. Off topic is an understatement of epic proportions. Kinda therapeutic though. :( Regards,Mel

Agreed.If I may be allowed. I certainly want to apologize if my earlier comments came accross as bashing. My wife is a freelance medical editor. That means she is the last hired and first fired, and lowest paid. And the last paid. She says she put the "free" in freelance because she often has to remind companies that she hasn't been paid yet. She has lost many jobs to "outsourcing". So be it. We move on. My comments were mearly a statement of events. You will also recall that I recounted a wonderful experience in that same post. Heaven knows people in countries work is outsourced to, need the work.Off topic? Yes, but I find these threads far more interesting to read.On topic, sort of. This fourm has many times beat this topic to death. I'm not sure what the answer is. But I think we should still work at it.Bob

And how would more serious offences, such as murder rape, and paedophilia, be punished?

With a slow, painful death that takes months to complete. Don't even try to comprehend how horrific it would be, because you can't. Now back on topic.

With a slow, painful death that takes months to complete. Don't even try to comprehend how horrific it would be, because you can't. Now back on topic.

And there was me thinking we'd advanced from a state of savagery and barbarianism!

Seriously though, we are discussing these "file sharing teenagers" as if they are the devils own spawn on this planet - which is frankly a bit ridiculous. This is like an addiction - ohhhh look another cracked scenery or aircaft, ohhhh, must have it now... must download, must download, must download... What is it is sad. Nothing more. The majority of the people who download this stuff from the pirate bay or any other warez site are simply doing it because they cannot help themselves. What they download is not important, it could be the crappiest scenery or aircraft and it would make no difference really - must download, must download, must download... ahhhhhhhhh. Got it, installed it, now must have the next one...These people, on average, do not deserve any kind of punishment - what they deserve is sympathy and perhaps a big hug as they do not have a life outside of accumulating one piece of software after the next. The people who crack this software are simply out for the ego trip - ohhhhh, you're soooooo cool, wish I could be just like you. Feed me Seymore, feed me, ahhhhhhh...So please guys, a little perspective is in order!

And there was me thinking we'd advanced from a state of savagery and barbarianism!

Since we don't actually do that stuff, apparently we have advanced. Glad we agree. Of course the punishment is no more barbaric than what the scumbag filthy thieves are doing to the victims, so I wish we were more harsh than we are.

Seriously though, we are discussing these "file sharing teenagers" as if they are the devils own spawn on this planet - which is frankly a bit ridiculous. This is like an addiction - ohhhh look another cracked scenery or aircaft, ohhhh, must have it now... must download, must download, must download... What is it is sad. Nothing more. The majority of the people who download this stuff from the pirate bay or any other warez site are simply doing it because they cannot help themselves. What they download is not important, it could be the crappiest scenery or aircraft and it would make no difference really - must download, must download, must download... ahhhhhhhhh. Got it, installed it, now must have the next one...These people, on average, do not deserve any kid of punishment - what they deserve is sympathy and perhaps a big hug as they do not have a life outside of accumulating one piece of software after the next. The people who crack this software are simply out for the ego trip - ohhhhh, you're soooooo cool, wish I could be just like you. Feed me Seymore, feed me, ahhhhhhh...So please guys, a little perspective is in order!

Where are the parents and how did they miss teaching their kids that stealing is wrong?